Bevo and our efforts

[Grantysghost]

I really don't have the answers here I'm really just brain dumping some of my longer standing concerns. Great discussion point.

We clearly now are seen as a side that can be easily intimidated which really started with the Swans at the SCG back in 2017 and has apparently not been rectified. This was on the back of media reports of a rift between JJ and Stringer and the Swans picked at the scab. Every other side is using this infuriating tactic now, watch GWS and North in the coming weeks and we have had our chance to stand up to it. We not only haven't, we just don't seem to have the personality to do so. Those of us that have played footy at any senior level know that certain guys in the side make you walk taller, feel braver, get in the face of the opponent psychologically and from outside looking in I can see there's no one currently playing apart from maybe Crozier reluctantly, Wallis and Smith who will consistently fly the flag for their team mates.

So does Bevo have an issue managing certain personality types? Is our team full of nice guys (no d-heads) maybe by design and could this be an issue when a little overt aggression would be useful. I see a guy like Devon Smith who yes, appears to be a d-head from the outside, play with a balance of in your face aggression, skill and competitiveness and think geez we really don't have that in our side. Zuharr from North springs to mind.
I've heard directly from a current player that Bevo "likes to play the younger guys" which I'm not sure I buy into, but is certainly food for thought considering we again were the second youngest side behind Gold Coast.

I might just be crazy, but Bevo seems to have a blind spot when it comes to the ruck. I fear English is suffering irreparable damage being thrown into contests against guys like Grundy. The first time we can cop it, the subsequent times you have to ask questions. He looks so down on confidence he was even dropping marks yesterday which is a strong suit of his. I get the experience argument but at the moment I believe we are doing more harm than good. Our plan B being Schache,Bruce, Dunkley, or Bont (rarely but in final) over and over again leaves me scratching my head as to how in depth our ruck game plan is. The best sides have a consistent, reliable ruck setup. They don't have to be superstars (Soldo, Nankervis, Mcinernay). Lets just pick the best team based on position and not be going with low percentage selection plays in real games.

Regarding effort it's really a mystery. The will is there, we've seen it late last year but for some reason it dissipates as the game turns against us. The skills and defensive structure go out the window as well, and it's got to be in their heads. Lloyd yesterday was a prime example he's a skillful player who butchered everything. I hate the term downhill skiers but there I said it.
Could it tie into personnel? We sometimes look meek, we have players who are naturally mild mannered as our more experienced leaders (JJ, Macrae for eg.) and when the chips are down there's basically silence on the field. The lack of crowd has exposed this to me, just how quiet we are. Yesterday was the perfect example, started well on the back of internal process and want for redemption, then as soon as challenged we went into our shells, almost afraid to make a mistake. Saints guys were loud, confident, cheering each other on boisterously. A stark example is Smith. He seems to have a fearless personality (you have to to rock that mullet!) and plays accordingly. No matter the game situation he's plowing in and wanting to beat his opponent. Never intimidated. Short term I think we need to address the balance immediately at selection, long term I don't know how you change this it's got to be recruitment I guess.

This is way too long now. I don't know how to bring this together into a coherent why but some of my ideas there for discussion.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I'm really concerned about what I see as a serious misuse of the talent on the list.

We went through this for the first half of last year, some didn't want to admit it at the time, but we gave away multiple games at the selection table in the first half of last year - and everyone here knows that we started significantly on the back foot this weekend.

How are you feeling if you are Jackson Trengove, Toby McLean, Lewis Young, Rhylee West right now - when others seem to have inexplicably jumped the queue? And what point do some these players becoming disengaged by the perplexing selection. And yes, I expect that some will say "well Gardner, Gowers etc etc are the least of our worries when our good players are not winning their positions etc etc" - but we win by our team approach and the reality is that the weak links in the chain are absolutely killing us and making it so much harder for our top players.

Last year, once we got selection right, the team gelled and played really good footy. Its a mess right now.

As for the Bevo-motivation factor....hard to know unless you're inside - but motivation only gets you so far, and they've been hearing the same voice for a while. So it has to be putting together a game style and having players capable of executing it - that will get us back to where we should be with a list this talented.

In some ways, the second half of last year might have been a bad thing to happen as it’s covered up larger issues. Or, were there changes made that fixed issues? I wasn’t in the country last year so I wasn’t keeping up to date with footy so I’m not sure why the two polar opposite halves last year. Did something change? Because looking at results we were looking really good. Why did we play 10 weeks of fantastic footy in the midst of 2.5 years and 2 weeks of fairly atrocious footy???

[bornadog]

I think as Bulldog supporters we always over rate our players. We think we are world beaters and have the best A graders in the AFL. I have said this over the past few years but always the coach and the MC is blamed for our poor performances. The players have to take some responsibility and stand up.

The game against the Saints was probably the best we have played in the past three losses. Games against GWS and Collingwood we were smashed in the inside 40s, CP, stoppages, all the key stats, yet against the Saints we were on par with them. Why did we lose? The Saints used their opportunities better than we did and kicked goals, and we butchered the ball (see clangers stat).

Yes there are some selections as outsiders we are puzzled with, but the 22 on the ground, must take some responsibility and use the ball better and don't turn it over so easily.

If the players selected can't take responsibility for their performance, then we need to continually turn over the players and get the hungry ones in that will play to the game plan and not stuff up.

[1eyedog]

I'm worried that the 2016 flag has given him too many credits internally. PG loves him, and they have an excellent working relationship, so I hope the Bevo-mantra of calm and collected and frankly, sometimes nonchalant approach, doesn't extend to how Turtle and PG view Bevo's performances, or a potential review at the end of the year.

This is not entirely Bevo's fault and agree he won't be sacked before the end of the year (and he shouldn't be), but he needs to find a way to re-energise the playing group and inject some self-belief because if it's a bottom 4 result this year he will be under extreme pressure.

[azabob]

When Luke Beveridge first came on board in 2015 majority have questioned match committee decisions. Clearly 2015 and 2016 every decision worked and came off - hense the throw away line "In Bevo we trust" each Thursday night.

Our team lacks a mental and physical hardness and is very quick to go into their shells. We don't have someone capable of standing up physically to turn the tide.

Who has replaced Matt Boyd, Dale Morris, Clay Smith, Tom Liberatore and Liam Picken?

Beveridge language is also extremely concerning. 2015/16 his mantra was one solider out another in. No excuses given, no excuses accepted, no excuses asked for.

Since 2017 excuses aplenty. It is all about patience an learning, we need to take a step backwards as this team evolves and changes. Even last night he was referencing the teams age as we develop as we find our way.

Our list is too similar across the board, coupled with misfits who have struggled to get onto a senior list is a recipe for what is happening now. At least the misfits in Stringer, Dahl, Biggs, Liberatore and co could actually play football.

Where to from here? Who knows as it is clear Beveridge won't be playing McLean, Liberatore or Trengrove anytime soon.

[bornadog]

Where to from here? Who knows as it is clear Beveridge won't be playing McLean, Liberatore or Trengrove anytime soon.

I think Libba will be right to go this week (don't forget he has had dodgy knees). Mclean has been poor for more than a year. Trengove, well other than some clangers in kicking the ball straight to the opposition a few times (Geelong match last year, woeful kick to Hawkins in a close game), I would like to see him in.

[comrade]

Who has replaced Matt Boyd, Dale Morris, Clay Smith, Tom Liberatore and Liam Picken?

Bailey Dale, Sam Lloyd, Ryan Gardner & Billy Gowers.

[bornadog]

Bailey Dale, Sam Lloyd, Ryan Gardner & Billy Gowers.

Well maybe that tells us about our recruiting. Not so good after all.

[Danjul]

I think Libba will be right to go this week (don't forget he has had dodgy knees). Mclean has been poor for more than a year. Trengove, well other than some clangers in kicking the ball straight to the opposition a few times (Geelong match last year, woeful kick to Hawkins in a close game), I would like to see him in.

How many times did we see this happen yesterday?
A lot! Even the Bont.

Trengove has not done it often, that is why it is memorable.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Im concerned that our group isn't professional enough, and lacks a hard edge in the way we go about it

I don't think we've helped with our selections or list management

I give Bevo some rope on selections but we are clearly over-exposed in the ruck and its English's development or almost nothing else - Sweet is the only other ruck option on the list - and this in my view is lunacy

And then there is the backline - we almost didn't play a key defender on the weekend either - Would Keath not be better playing off a key defender - we seem to have a backline made up of third talls, apart from Lewis Young if he can take a big step - but at this stage Wood, Cordy, Crozier, LachYoung and possible even Keath are better as third talls, or playing off one real key defender

Maybe the short term step is to put Naughton back and get him back in form and fitness that way - but its been a pretty horrible last 3 games and we don't seem able to dig in when the game isn't on our terms and just get back into it. Sydney did a good job of that on the weekend and normally adjust superbly in games - you never get away with dominating Sydney for four quarters, but we are too meek at the minute.

[1eyedog]

I'm really concerned about what I see as a serious misuse of the talent on the list.

We went through this for the first half of last year, some didn't want to admit it at the time, but we gave away multiple games at the selection table in the first half of last year - and everyone here knows that we started significantly on the back foot this weekend.

How are you feeling if you are Jackson Trengove, Toby McLean, Lewis Young, Rhylee West right now - when others seem to have inexplicably jumped the queue? And what point do some these players becoming disengaged by the perplexing selection. And yes, I expect that some will say "well Gardner, Gowers etc etc are the least of our worries when our good players are not winning their positions etc etc" - but we win by our team approach and the reality is that the weak links in the chain are absolutely killing us and making it so much harder for our top players.

Last year, once we got selection right, the team gelled and played really good footy. Its a mess right now.

As for the Bevo-motivation factor....hard to know unless you're inside - but motivation only gets you so far, and they've been hearing the same voice for a while. So it has to be putting together a game style and having players capable of executing it - that will get us back to where we should be with a list this talented.

I agree. I remember Brereton saying many years ago (2008-2010) that St.Kilda had the most talent in their squad, but they couldn't win a flag because their bottom 6 were the worst out of all finals aspirants.

[bornadog]

I agree. I remember Brereton saying many years ago (2008-2010) that St.Kilda had the most talent in their squad, but they couldn't win a flag because their bottom 6 were the worst out of all finals aspirants.

Hit the nail on the head 1eye, our bottom six are woeful.

[comrade]

Well maybe that tells us about our recruiting. Not so good after all.

3 of the 4 are rookies that Bevo has a big say in selecting.

[Danjul]

Well maybe that tells us about our recruiting. Not so good after all.

I might be wrong but weren’t 2 of them our leading goal kickers?
And another kicked about 20 goals in 5 games when able to play his natural game.

“Bailey Dale, Sam Lloyd, Ryan Gardner & Billy Gowers”

[soupman]

Purely on Beveridge I think his greatest strength is his ability to bottle lightning. 2015-16 demonstrated that he is able to take a decent list and through team unity, belief and a custom made gameplan he can make them something great.

Part of his best tools for doing this involve alternative tactics and uses of players, giving fringe players important roles and really harnessing a narrative for the team. This is all good but I'm not sure it works long term. Pretty soon you run out of players on your list you can reinvigorate through position changes, your alternative tactics get figured out and once the narrative has run it's course it's difficult to begin a new one. This has definitely played out with our side.

Honestly in hindsight if Beveridge had a philosophy of moving clubs every time he won a Premiership he'd probably have a much better record. If he had've left us at the end of 2016 or even 2017 and joined a club on the fringe like Freo or Port or even Melbourne I actually think he would've done really well. He could take a list with some good top end talent, a bunch of players at the crossroads and a playing group lacking in self belief and really get the best out of them for a 2-3 year period. I know soccer has the concept of "Promotion managers" who have repetitively taken teams in the second tier and gotten them promoted but have been unable to hold positions in the Premier League for a length of time, likewise with managers that often get picked up for about 6 months to save sides from relegation. I think Beveridge could build a decent reputation of "give him a 3 year contract and a not terrible side and he will give you a real chance at a flag" but I'm not sure I would be renewing him after the 3rd year.