Bevo and our efforts

[Ozza]

Hit the nail on the head 1eye, our bottom six are woeful.

Not trying to pick an argument BAD, but you are defending Bevo and selection - but you also agree the bottom 6 are woeful.

Any chance we can pick a better bottom 6!! (ie. a 6 that have demonstrated they can play at the level). We played 6 premiership players yesterday (5 from ours + Suckling). We have 13 on the list (acknowledging that 2 are injured).

[The bulldog tragician]

I think as Bulldog supporters we always over rate our players. We think we are world beaters and have the best A graders in the AFL. I have said this over the past few years but always the coach and the MC is blamed for our poor performances. The players have to take some responsibility and stand up.

The game against the Saints was probably the best we have played in the past three losses. Games against GWS and Collingwood we were smashed in the inside 40s, CP, stoppages, all the key stats, yet against the Saints we were on par with them. Why did we lose? The Saints used their opportunities better than we did and kicked goals, and we butchered the ball (see clangers stat).

Yes there are some selections as outsiders we are puzzled with, but the 22 on the ground, must take some responsibility and use the ball better and don't turn it over so easily.

If the players selected can't take responsibility for their performance, then we need to continually turn over the players and get the hungry ones in that will play to the game plan and not stuff up.

It's not letting the players off the hook for their performances at all BAD, I agree with you there, but I think this thread is a separate topic .. of how the coaching staff are performing in getting their best out of their players, and who they are selecting..or not selecting..and why.

[Danjul]

What we saw yesterday can’t be pinned on 6 players. It goes much deeper.

Of the six players selected on the backline only one had more kicks than handballs. You don’t get much drive that way.

on the forward line our big import to kick goals only kicked the ball 3 times. Dale, whose only reason for being in the team is to kick goals, only kicked the ball 4 times.

in the middle Dunkley, Macrae and Lipinski had a total of 45 handballs. But they only kicked the ball 20 times.

Smith held the ball long enough to run into space and kick forward a few times, but only one third of his possessions were kicks.

overall, 60% of the team’s disposals were handball. 60% of the winning team’s disposals were kicks.

The Dogs looked ok in Q1. Then they stopped kicking. Then everyone was drawn out of position to handball distance making it easy for the opposition to defend play and rebound. Happened frequently over the last 3 years. Always the same result.

The team has no collective awareness of winning tactics , partly because selection displays no awareness of a winning structure, and game management shows no evidence of guidance .

[bornadog]

It's not letting the players off the hook for their performances at all BAD, I agree with you there, but I think this thread is a separate topic .. of how the coaching staff are performing in getting their best out of their players, and who they are selecting..or not selecting..and why.

I don't have a clue how the coaching staff are performing, I would only be speculating.

My only comments are around selection and how the players performed. Players have all sorts of reasons why they are not selected. I know last year Williams was not selected in the first half due to off field issues, yet the MC is blamed because we know no better.

That is why my comments are around the players.

[Mofra]

The Dogs looked ok in Q1. Then they stopped kicking.

So the real question is - why did they stop kicking?
Did our forwards work hard enough to present? I know Naughton does (all the time) but did he have any support? Bruce stayed close to goal a fair bit which may be an instruction, so who else? Were Lloyd/Dale presenting? If that is the case it could explain some hesitancy to kick.

It's hard to see on the TV but half forwards who are average are dime a dozen, those who do it well are like gold because you have to simultaneously play as a midfielder and a 'general' forward. There aren't many good ones and apart from Lloyd last year it seems to be a consistent issue.

TBH I'm at the stage where Bont needs to spend more than 2 minutes a game forward - he will outmark every single tagger in the game, and Smith is an able burst mid to accompany Dunkley and Macrae who can go in.

[1eyedog]

Purely on Beveridge I think his greatest strength is his ability to bottle lightning. 2015-16 demonstrated that he is able to take a decent list and through team unity, belief and a custom made gameplan he can make them something great.

Part of his best tools for doing this involve alternative tactics and uses of players, giving fringe players important roles and really harnessing a narrative for the team. This is all good but I'm not sure it works long term. Pretty soon you run out of players on your list you can reinvigorate through position changes, your alternative tactics get figured out and once the narrative has run it's course it's difficult to begin a new one. This has definitely played out with our side.

Honestly in hindsight if Beveridge had a philosophy of moving clubs every time he won a Premiership he'd probably have a much better record. If he had've left us at the end of 2016 or even 2017 and joined a club on the fringe like Freo or Port or even Melbourne I actually think he would've done really well. He could take a list with some good top end talent, a bunch of players at the crossroads and a playing group lacking in self belief and really get the best out of them for a 2-3 year period. I know soccer has the concept of "Promotion managers" who have repetitively taken teams in the second tier and gotten them promoted but have been unable to hold positions in the Premier League for a length of time, likewise with managers that often get picked up for about 6 months to save sides from relegation. I think Beveridge could build a decent reputation of "give him a 3 year contract and a not terrible side and he will give you a real chance at a flag" but I'm not sure I would be renewing him after the 3rd year.

This is an insightful post, thanks. How would you explain his ability to get us going in the second half of last year after two and half years of mediocrity?

[bornadog]

Not trying to pick an argument BAD, but you are defending Bevo and selection - but you also agree the bottom 6 are woeful.

Any chance we can pick a better bottom 6!! (ie. a 6 that have demonstrated they can play at the level). We played 6 premiership players yesterday (5 from ours + Suckling). We have 13 on the list (acknowledging that 2 are injured).

I didn't defend selection. I am still perplexed why Gardner, Gowers are in for starters, and why isn't Trengove playing.

Sometimes you just don't have the players and can only pick from what you have and they may be the best of a bad bunch, but still not a good bottom 6.

However, what would improve the bottom 6 is, 6 of - Hunter, Libba, Wood, Duryea, Cordy, Schache, Trengove, Mclean, Dickson, Lew Young who are all capable at senior level.

[Grantysghost]

I didn't defend selection. I am still perplexed why Gardner, Gowers are in for starters, and why isn't Trengove playing.

Sometimes you just don't have the players and can only pick from what you have and they may be the best of a bad bunch, but still not a good bottom 6.

However, what would improve the bottom 6 is, 6 of - Hunter, Libba, Wood, Duryea, Cordy, Schache, Trengove, Mclean, Dickson, Lew Young who are all capable at senior level.

Yesterday it felt like we were reacting to the opposition with selection rather than having a strong brand of our own, that we stick with and consistently refer to.

[EasternWest]

This is a great thread.

[Ozza]

Yesterday it felt like we were reacting to the opposition with selection rather than having a strong brand of our own, that we stick with and consistently refer to.

Interesting post. Reminds me how we used to be always looking short in defence, but it was seen as important that we stuck to that for our overall brand, so we consistently stuck to that short running defence ethos. At least then, even if we didn't agree with selection - we could see the outline of a plan.

[soupman]

This is an insightful post, thanks. How would you explain his ability to get us going in the second half of last year after two and half years of mediocrity?

Broken clock and all that?

I do think he is a very capable coach and don't mean to say he is a complete write off outside of the 3 year period i spoke about, but the run last year wasn't even that good tbh (we lost to Saints and Brisbane, and beat Adelaide, half of GWS, Essendon, Freo, Melbourne, Geelong and Port) and two key contributions to our success in that period were a settled lineup and conventional teams, two things that Beveridge has proven aren't really his thing.

I think he would be a hugely frustrating coach to play at after the initial honeymoon period. He would start out feeling like a breath of fresh air, with his faith in everyone and ability to bind a group. But 3+ years in and his persistence with some over others, experiments with team structure and inability to receive criticism could start to wear thin.

[GVGjr]

Just on Bevo's pressers and his 'Bevo Brief' message today.
Do they do anything to inspire some confidence for supporters and dare I say the playing group that we have things in hand or does it come across as a coach struggling to pinpoint what the problem is?

Once again, this isn't a go at Bevo and I get and accept that his style is a bit different to most but it's not instilling in me the thought we are closer to a fix.

[Grantysghost]

Interesting post. Reminds me how we used to be always looking short in defence, but it was seen as important that we stuck to that for our overall brand, so we consistently stuck to that short running defence ethos. At least then, even if we didn't agree with selection - we could see the outline of a plan.

I guess I think of the bench mark in the Tigers and wonder whether they would alter their team setup too dramatically based on the opponent or stick with their brand. Not to say we threw out the rule book but I guess giving this more thought i wonder what our brand is. Speed ? Skill ?

[Grantysghost]

Just on Bevo's pressers and his 'Bevo Brief' message today.
Do they do anything to inspire some confidence for supporters and dare I say the playing group that we have things in hand or does it come across as a coach struggling to pinpoint what the problem is?

Once again, this isn't a go at Bevo and I get and accept that his style is a bit different to most but it's not instilling in me the thought we are closer to a fix.

We've spoken about assistants before, do we lack a fresh voice? I get covid puts pay to that for the short term but watching Essendon v the Swans I could clearly see Caracella's influence on their game style they really setup well behind the play.

[Vred]

Personally, I am actually up for Bevo getting sacked at this point, I was at that stage in 2018, I was at that stage last year and minus our run of slightly good games I'm still of that mindset.

I saw it mentioned on Facebook that Bevo doesn't just need to inspire the team but the fans as well that he can deliver. If you watch the end-game presser last night the way his speaking, it's clear that even he doesn't have the answers, specially with cocked up lines like ''Libba hasn't played a game of footy in awhile so we won't pick him'' - Yet Jong is literally in that same boat? It is clear from someone looking in that their is a problem within the group, and I do think it's Bevo at this point, the way he speaks these days says it all to me, he does not come across as confident, and always seems to be searching for an answer.

Is there something deeply wrong with our playing group, a lack of heart, faith, courage, or drive? I don't know, but it shows in their playing and it's truly depressing to watch the people who will fly the flag for us (Bailey Smith) seem to have no backup. If things keep going the way they are, we WILL lose our better players to other clubs because of the bad culture within ours. We should of never have lost Roughead, who for all regards, was a one-club man who never wanted to leave but was quietly pushed out the door.

Match selection is another thing that completely baffles me, yes, McCartney was a little too ridged but Bevo is the other way around, and seems to be picking based on favorites and not what we need. Players should know that if they don't play upto standard they WILL get dropped down to the twos, yet we seem to drop the wrong people and continue to press with players who shouldn't be their to begin with.

If Gardner and Gowers are in the team next week It will confirm for me my worst fears, that there is something deeply wrong with the culture and leadership down at the Bulldogs and it needs to be removed, quickly. Neither of those two players are anywhere near AFL level, let alone the other ones who are questionable at best.

I'm worried for my club, that's for sure.