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  1. #1
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    Our Ruck Direction

    So we know we have a great around the ground on baller in English but are we cutting our nose off at selection table.
    With Naughton going down for 6 weeks will Bevo throw caution to the wind and seek the next best left field move in the AFL. Is English what we need as a front line ruckman? Let’s face it he is not Ben Hudson or Will Minson but why are we getting beaten so badly in the centre bounce.

    Will Minson 199cm @ 106kg
    Ben Hudson 199cm @ 106kg

    English is 205cm and 93kg so you would think he could get his hand on the ball and hit to our advantage at the centre bounce more often. English is young and has time on his side.

    Is it a technic thing or does he not have the aggression required to be the front line ruck in an AFL side.

    Should we just sit him in the forward line and bring in Trengrove to go at it in the ruck.

    Should we looking fir another ruckman and if so what our it make our side any better.

    Also why do we get beaten up at the centre bounce by Grundy and Goldstein when they are shorter than English.

    Would we be better to stop the ruck thing with English (stop eating to try and put weight on) and use him just like Mason Cox at Collingwood
    BB.

    Looking forward - Naughton, Darcy and JUH. It will be the envy of everyone.

  2. #2
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    Re: Our Ruck Direction

    Quote Originally Posted by Bumper Bulldogs View Post
    So we know we have a great around the ground on baller in English but are we cutting our nose off at selection table.
    With Naughton going down for 6 weeks will Bevo throw caution to the wind and seek the next best left field move in the AFL. Is English what we need as a front line ruckman? Let’s face it he is not Ben Hudson or Will Minson but why are we getting beaten so badly in the centre bounce.

    Will Minson 199cm @ 106kg
    Ben Hudson 199cm @ 106kg

    English is 205cm and 93kg so you would think he could get his hand on the ball and hit to our advantage at the centre bounce more often. English is young and has time on his side.

    Is it a technic thing or does he not have the aggression required to be the front line ruck in an AFL side.

    Should we just sit him in the forward line and bring in Trengrove to go at it in the ruck.

    Should we looking fir another ruckman and if so what our it make our side any better.

    Also why do we get beaten up at the centre bounce by Grundy and Goldstein when they are shorter than English.

    Would we be better to stop the ruck thing with English (stop eating to try and put weight on) and use him just like Mason Cox at Collingwood
    Opposing ruckmen are usually 10 kg heavier in the upper body. They have been using this to advantage by making contact with him moments before the ball arrives. Grundy has been able to do this in such a way as to remove English from the contest, if he misses the ball by 1cm Grundy can exert control over where the ball goes.

    English’s opponents were doing this to him in the VFL.

  3. #3
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    Re: Our Ruck Direction

    Even though English is not a natural ruckman, he is still learning his trade. If you look at his figures and compare him at the same age as Goldy, Gawn, and a few others, they are about at the same development level. Grundy is way ahead at that age in hitouts, but he is the number one in the AFL and probably the best ruckman in the last 10 years.

    In the meantime, my ideal would be to give English support, but only against the good ruckman. In other games against emerging or average ruckman, like last Thursday, we can wing it and rely on the mids to clear the ball. Unfortunately, when the Grundies and Goldies of the world tap it straight to their own mids, then it becomes difficult for our mids and that is why you need a Trengove or even Sweet to help out.

    Bevo as we know has his own ideas of what the rucks should look like.

    When you look at the ruckman during Bevo's tenure - Minson AA, but rarely played him, Campbell, Roughhead all gone because they didn't fit the Bevo mold, ie a player that is not just good at hitouts, but does more around the ground like Grundy. Hopefully English will continue his development and become a Grundy like player. He is certainly great around the ground.
    FFC: Established 1883

    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

  4. #4
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    Re: Our Ruck Direction

    I'm still a bit concerned about Tim. It's nice that he's handsomely beating some lumbering guys around the ground while still losing the majority of the taps, but what happens when he come up against those ruckmen near his level outside of centre bounces? It's no coincidence that he's been destroyed by Grundy every time they play, and it's not just through Grundy's silver service tap work.

    He's certainly going to make it in some form, but I'm gonna need to see him be competitive in stoppages before I'm convinced its as a ruck, regardless of how much work he puts in around the ground.

    What I have been incredibly impressed with is his sure presence in contested marking situations. When a ball is coming in high he looks totally dominant in a pack. His ruck work is a million miles off but in those spots he looks like Dean Cox.
    - I'm a visionary - Only here to confirm my biases -

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  6. #5
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    Re: Our Ruck Direction

    Is it a timing thing in that he allows the body contact from the opposing ruckman.
    If he timed his leap better he should avoid some of that contact early and out reach his opponent.
    Of course this also depends on how well the ball is bounced. I would like Tim to take a almighty run a jump at the ball and thump it as far as he can in our direction and let the half forwards get involved.
    I think Minno was the last ruckman we had that thump it clear of the centre. If your opponent is a great tap ruck don't play to his strengths I this is easier said than done.
    Don't piss off old people
    The older we get the less "LIFE IN PRISON" is a deterrent...

  7. #6
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    Re: Our Ruck Direction

    I get what your all stating but I wouldn’t mind resting Timmy at Full Forward whole Naughton is out of the side. Trengrove can ruck with Tim The occasional chop out. I recon Tim is good for two or three a game coming out of the square. It also might help get through the year if he’s not to bashed up mid season
    BB.

    Looking forward - Naughton, Darcy and JUH. It will be the envy of everyone.

  8. #7
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    Re: Our Ruck Direction

    Quote Originally Posted by Bumper Bulldogs View Post
    I get what your all stating but I wouldn’t mind resting Timmy at Full Forward whole Naughton is out of the side. Trengrove can ruck with Tim The occasional chop out. I recon Tim is good for two or three a game coming out of the square. It also might help get through the year if he’s not to bashed up mid season
    Good observations. I think part of Tom Boyd’s difficulty was continually being bashed in the ruck. Would not want it to happen again.

  9. #8
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    Re: Our Ruck Direction

    He's just played his best game for the club as an around the ground high marking ruck/ midfielder, to the team's benefit. I'd persevere with him in that role for a while given he was also good in it the week before, again, to our team's benefit.

    Giving away a lot of strength and experience comes at a price in ruck contests, though I think he's shown what he is capable of around the ground outweighs that these past two weeks. Against the Pies our midfield did not show up, at all, it will need to each week to help him out.
    Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.

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  11. #9
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    Re: Our Ruck Direction

    I think the hit outs to advantage should be the only stat used
    Completely futile getting a million hit outs to no advantage

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  13. #10
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    Re: Our Ruck Direction

    Quote Originally Posted by Remi Moses View Post
    I think the hit outs to advantage should be the only stat used
    Completely futile getting a million hit outs to no advantage
    Provided they're actually to advantage and measured as such.
    Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.

  14. #11
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    Re: Our Ruck Direction

    Quote Originally Posted by jeemak View Post
    Provided they're actually to advantage and measured as such.
    Yeah there's hitouts to advantage that see a player tackled and a second stoppage, and then there's HOLLYWOOD TAPS over the ruckman's head to a player streaming forward. They need to differentiate between the two.
    - I'm a visionary - Only here to confirm my biases -

  15. #12
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    Re: Our Ruck Direction

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Days View Post
    Yeah there's hitouts to advantage that see a player tackled and a second stoppage, and then there's HOLLYWOOD TAPS over the ruckman's head to a player streaming forward. They need to differentiate between the two.
    I think I'm a little like Bevo in that I think the hit outs to advantage stats are ill measured and overrated. I've always thought ruckmen get a free pass for just hitting it near a bloke, without doing much around the ground.

    A saying I have is there isn't a more dangerous combination on a footy field than ruckmen and ambition, and it's pretty obvious why. What we have with Tim is literally elite in terms of impact around the ground, he's one ruck that I'm happy to say is the antithesis of that saying. If he turns out to be mildly competent at stoppages then he's going to be a generational player.
    Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.

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  17. #13
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    Re: Our Ruck Direction

    Goldstein this week

    Time to give him a Sweet taste IMO to help out Timmy
    The fight is here; I need ammunition, not a ride.

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  19. #14
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    Re: Our Ruck Direction

    Quote Originally Posted by Dry Rot View Post
    Goldstein this week

    Time to give him a Sweet taste IMO to help out Timmy
    But what do we gain versus sacrifice if we bring Sweet in? Tim's played his best footy around the ground these past couple of weeks, do we bring Sweet in just for the stoppages and let Tim rove? What does Sweet do when we actually have it and when we don't, and there's no ruck contests to contest?

    Who goes out for Sweet? Our team defence backed by English playing behind the ball at times has been excellent the last two weeks, how does Sweet actually add to that?
    Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.

  20. #15
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    Re: Our Ruck Direction

    Surely if we’re worried about a dominant ruck man, we don’t bring in another rookie?

    If we want English to have support, it has to be JT.

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