Just because English was BOG doesn't mean...

[Topdog]

I'd add Schache to your post GVG, last week was not the conditions or game for him and he performed poorly, likely to not be seen again for some time now

[angelopetraglia]

Timmy is 22, nearly 23. Doesn't diminish your point in any way. He is progressing fantastically.

Thank you. Will update for accuracy.

[Bulldog Joe]

GvGjr highlights one of our issues.

We play youth and then if they haven't become matchwinners, we let them stagnate.

We have the following players who have looked like becoming regulars not selected this week

Tory Dickson 113 games
Billy Gowers 31 games
Toby McLean 83 games
Josh Schache 56 games
Lewis Young 15 games

That ignores all the 1st and 2nd year players and those missing through injury.

We tend to give most a chance and only Callum Porter has been on our list for more than 2 years without a game.

[bornadog]

Yes we are young, but as we all know it is self inflicted with our list management strategy.

So you think when players get to a certain age, we get rid of them? We lost Murphy, Keithy Boyd, Morris in the past two years who all had lot of experience and would change the average games played. That is not a strategy, it happened.

We seem intent on churning and burning once our players hit the 70 game mark.

I can't agree with this. We got rid of trouble makers like Stringer, Dahl. Clay Smith through injury and Tom Boyd through mental health issues. Who else did we churn and burn?

Just because we are young does not guarantee anything.

Not sure what you mean by this statement.

[bornadog]

We have an experienced list, we just aren't playing some of them.

Trengove and Dickson are the only players that could come in. Duryea is injured as is Jong but the rest of the players over 100 games are playing. I don't think we do have an experienced list. We only have 5 players over 150. and none over 200.

It's the stop/start nature of our player development that is hard to understand for me and it's perhaps the reason why we can keep saying we have a young and inexperienced list.

We put development games into the likes of Will Hayes last year before he was really ready and this year he had been unsighted.
We put games into Lachie Young as a defender last season and before last night I don't think he had even made the emergency list except for his late call up last week.

We appear to have lost some faith in Lewis Young after setting him up last year for a bigger role this year and the development of Greene and Lynch has been stymied after some promising signs in previous years...I get that injuries has played a part in it as well
On top of that we lost faith in Rhyley West after one poor showing and who knows where we are with Roarke Smith

It's like we start something but never quite stay the course, losing faith but never really addressing things at the end of the season.
There are a lot of players on our list who have had senior football experience but someone has then hit the pause button.

I don't agree with any of this. Players have come in all due to the heavy injury toll we have endured over the last few seasons. Bevo likes to reward players that do well at VFL level and they get their opportunity. Greene and Lynch have had injury problems and have not captured any form. This season it is hard due to no VFL and players that have trained well and played well in the scratch matches get an opportunity. I don't believe anyone has lost faith in West. He has plenty of time to develop, same with Lewis Young.

I think we have tried to address the inexperience by bringing in Crozier, Trengove, Duryea, Lloyd, and Suckling back in 2016.

I think people read too much into the selections as we don't know what is going on in the background, but it is fun to try and pick who will be in on a week to week basis.

[azabob]

So you think when players get to a certain age, we get rid of them? We lost Murphy, Keithy Boyd, Morris in the past two years who all had lot of experience and would change the average games played. That is not a strategy, it happened.



I can't agree with this. We got rid of trouble makers like Stringer, Dahl. Clay Smith through injury and Tom Boyd through mental health issues. Who else did we churn and burn?



Not sure what you mean by this statement.

It isn't as though we didn't know Murphy, MBoyd, Morris and Picken would retire - we should have had a strategy in place to replace those players.

My churn and burn comment is my frustration at our continual pointing to our youth and how eventually we will be more experienced and results will come - but year on year we get younger and younger!

My point is just because we are young doesn't guarantee winning the ultimate prize.

[ledge]

Western bulldogs “MO”win games that give your supporters hope and lose the games of consolidation or importance, that’s been the same since the 70s. Except 2016.

[Remi Moses]

It isn't as though we didn't know Murphy, MBoyd, Morris and Picken would retire - we should have had a strategy in place to replace those players.

My churn and burn comment is my frustration at our continual pointing to our youth and how eventually we will be more experienced and results will come - but year on year we get younger and younger!

My point is just because we are young doesn't guarantee winning the ultimate prize.

Nobody said it guarantees anything . They lost a fair bit of experience after the flag
Yes, they retired and were replaced with younger player’s . We’ve been through the reasons why some of the players left .
Could anybody envisage Tom Boyd , Picken, Clay Smith and their issues ?

[westdog54]

https://www.facebook.com/51008272250...2484218594048/

Just enjoy it.

[Grantysghost]

Some things are odd though, and seem very hard to explain from a long term strategy.
Trengove plays a large stretch of games last season when we are really surging in the second half.
English is crook, he takes his spot in the ruck for Giants game, Lewis Young takes the tall defender role. From there Young is preferred? Trengove has never played again.
Now Young has apparently come back out of shape and is persona non grata. I guess for me when I see that I wonder what the plan is. Maybe its genius I don't know. Dickson is another that seems to have his papers stamped. Guess it happens at all clubs but certainly interesting enough to question from what we see as supporters, although it is certainly clear many of our recent list changes are forced (Picken, Smith, Boyd).
Edit: Keath recruitment I guess indicates the fact we weren't happy with Trengove maybe longer term and has allowed us some freedom with Young (forward earlier now out).

[GVGjr]

I'd add Schache to your post GVG, last week was not the conditions or game for him and he performed poorly, likely to not be seen again for some time now

Thats a good point, Schache is a player we specifically targeted and traded for and yet in the first two years with us he played the exact same number of games with us as he did in his first 2 seasons and Brisbane. Now he's played just 2 games this year.

[GVGjr]

What are some options for ruck coverage when English has a spell? Because Cordy isn’t the answer.

I think Lewis Young could be a puzzle piece. Play at CHB, with Cordy as a third tall, and when English goes off, send Young into the ruck and roll Cordy over to the second tall forward for a brief stint?

Not sure where that would leave Wood.

I like the suggestion but it's doubtful it will happen, Young's best chance might be to fill a spot in the forward line until Naughton comes back

[GVGjr]

It isn't as though we didn't know Murphy, MBoyd, Morris and Picken would retire - we should have had a strategy in place to replace those players.

My churn and burn comment is my frustration at our continual pointing to our youth and how eventually we will be more experienced and results will come - but year on year we get younger and younger!

My point is just because we are young doesn't guarantee winning the ultimate prize.

Spot on, the easy option is to point out the players that have retired as creating an 'experience' gap but we discussed it here on WOOF that the club didn't appear to be doing a lot about replacing them. I've never been a fan of using injuries or highlighting how young our 22 are on match day.

[1eyedog]

Spot on, the easy option is to point out the players that have retired as creating an 'experience' gap but we discussed it here on WOOF that the club didn't appear to be doing a lot about replacing them. I've never been a fan of using injuries or highlighting how young our 22 are on match day.

Murphy -Suckling (HB)
Boyd - Crozier (BP)
Picken - (as a forward Lloyd?)
Morris - Keath (Key back)

We've brought some guys in.

[azabob]

Murphy -Suckling (HB)
Boyd - Crozier (BP)
Picken - (as a forward Lloyd?)
Morris - Keath (Key back)

We've brought some guys in.

Suckling came to club when Murphy was still playing.

We were not an old list in 2015 and 2016 either so adding those replacement players kept the status quo and didn’t increase our age profile.