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  1. #16
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    Re: Is Bevo burning out?

    Quote Originally Posted by jeemak View Post
    Us being off usually involves two key aspects. A lack of intent, and disorganisation within or an overly aggressive press/ poorly spread defence. Put those two things together and it gets ugly quickly.

    Are these two things really something that we can fix with the right players with the right mentality?
    And that's where I think our frustration with guys like Richards areMclean are central. They should, especially Mclean be ready to be consistent performers, and to a lesser extent Lipinski.
    If those 3 were able to be more influential and consistent in their play, we'd be much more likely for our game plan to prevail.
    Mclean should be our Lachie Neale. Richards should be our gamebreaking winger. Lipinski should be another key distributor. More often than not Lipinski just offloads a hot potato handpass putting the next bloke under extreme pressure. And all 3 just dont exert enough movement off ball or apply enough pressure.
    Can they do it? Will they get there. Time is definitely running out for Mclean thats for sure.

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  3. #17
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    Re: Is Bevo burning out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Hotel Foxtrot View Post
    And that's where I think our frustration with guys like Richards areMclean are central. They should, especially Mclean be ready to be consistent performers, and to a lesser extent Lipinski.
    If those 3 were able to be more influential and consistent in their play, we'd be much more likely for our game plan to prevail.
    Mclean should be our Lachie Neale. Richards should be our gamebreaking winger. Lipinski should be another key distributor. More often than not Lipinski just offloads a hot potato handpass putting the next bloke under extreme pressure. And all 3 just dont exert enough movement off ball or apply enough pressure.
    Can they do it? Will they get there. Time is definitely running out for Mclean thats for sure.
    Have we over rated these three and actually they aren't that good?
    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

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  5. #18
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    Re: Is Bevo burning out?

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    Have we over rated these three and actually they aren't that good?
    That may indeed be the question. Pains me to say it. Especially given Mclean in particular has shown he's capable. I don't understand Mclean's down turn. He really should be hitting his straps now..

    Richards and Lipinski need to show more.

  6. #19
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    Re: Is Bevo burning out?

    I reckon he's bounced back from that experience. 2017, 18 and 19 he looked every bit a spent force, IMO.

    He's a real numbers man and has often spoken about risk mitigation as an influence on how he sets up the field. There's too much high risk, high reward flavour at the moment, much in the way there was in 2015. It's not working for this group.

    3rd man up rule really took a weapon out of his coaching arsenal. Has also stripped Bontempelli and Jong of an area of influence.

    6-6-6 rule no doubt has caused some havoc.

    The runner limitations have been a killer for his coaching style too.

    I would like him to be adding a stronger "horses for courses" process to our strategy. Try and challenge the opposition coaches by throwing something different into the mix.

    Right now it feels like he has a matrix on a whiteboard that looks like this:

    FFC ON, OPPONENT OFF = we win
    FFC ON, OPPONENT ON = we win
    FFC OFF, OPPONENT ON = we lose
    FFC OFF, OPPONENT OFF = we lose

    and that's it. His job at that point is about being ON more often than we are OFF.

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  8. #20
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    Re: Is Bevo burning out?

    Quote Originally Posted by SonofScray View Post
    I reckon he's bounced back from that experience. 2017, 18 and 19 he looked every bit a spent force, IMO.

    He's a real numbers man and has often spoken about risk mitigation as an influence on how he sets up the field. There's too much high risk, high reward flavour at the moment, much in the way there was in 2015. It's not working for this group.

    3rd man up rule really took a weapon out of his coaching arsenal. Has also stripped Bontempelli and Jong of an area of influence.

    6-6-6 rule no doubt has caused some havoc.

    The runner limitations have been a killer for his coaching style too.

    I would like him to be adding a stronger "horses for courses" process to our strategy. Try and challenge the opposition coaches by throwing something different into the mix.

    Right now it feels like he has a matrix on a whiteboard that looks like this:

    FFC ON, OPPONENT OFF = we win
    FFC ON, OPPONENT ON = we win
    FFC OFF, OPPONENT ON = we lose
    FFC OFF, OPPONENT OFF = we lose

    and that's it. His job at that point is about being ON more often than we are OFF.
    I think you raise a pretty good analysis for how every coach coaches, and not many aren't cattle dependent. The reality being some coaches have the cattle to mask that approach and the majority don't which is why the good teams are good and the OK teams are OK and the bad teams are bad.

    Is there a best 22 in the league that is as cobbled together as ours? There's literally nothing generic about it in a traditional football sense, and when it works we look great but when it doesn't we look completely terrible.

    I maintain that there's no team in the competition that plays like we do when we play well. It's kind of the antitheses of what WCE produced last week against Collingwood, and it's just as damaging. I guess our issue is we have to do what we do because we're not as structurally sound as a WCE type side. I'm of a view with the cattle we have if we tried to play too differently we'd be cooked week in week out, rather than being competitive every second week and finishing on the ladder where our list suggests we should anyway.

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  10. #21
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    Re: Is Bevo burning out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Hotel Foxtrot View Post
    That may indeed be the question. Pains me to say it. Especially given Mclean in particular has shown he's capable. I don't understand Mclean's down turn. He really should be hitting his straps now..

    Richards and Lipinski need to show more.
    McLean is playing at the wrong club. He needs there to be no Libba so he can be the next rung of inside mid. But, he ain't Libba.

    Richards and Lipinski, as frustrating as they are will be very very good players for us long term. They just need to tidy up on effort and skill execution at times.

  11. #22
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    Re: Is Bevo burning out?

    Quote Originally Posted by jeemak View Post
    McLean is playing at the wrong club. He needs there to be no Libba so he can be the next rung of inside mid. But, he ain't Libba.
    What happens to Libba when Dunkley returns?

    We have lots of mids who really can’t play anywhere else, but we need to try and play them all.

  12. #23
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    Re: Is Bevo burning out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mantis View Post
    What happens to Libba when Dunkley returns?

    We have lots of mids who really can’t play anywhere else, but we need to try and play them all.
    Liba needs to play inside with Smith, Macrae and Dunks as the 'main group'. Bont plays forward and takes up the (I'm reluctant to call it this but here goes) Hird role where he positions himself forward, back or mid depending on what is needed. Lipinski becomes the next Hunter and plays his footy outside the game or he doesn't make it.
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

  13. #24
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    Re: Is Bevo burning out?

    We just don’t have the midfield that runs hard both ways. Let’s be honest, in our blow out losses, our mids have been deplorable in their defensive game, giving the opposition a free ride into their forward line with a pagans paddock forward 50.

    The best set up we have is our defensive 6.

    Our Main mid group are too one dimensional

    Our fwd line is half mids (not true forwards) and is slower than an aged home 10 metre race.

    And don’t get me started on the ruck situation...I’m literally over that.
    I will never see #16 the same!!

  14. #25
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    Re: Is Bevo burning out?

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    Liba needs to play inside with Smith, Macrae and Dunks as the 'main group'. Bont plays forward and takes up the (I'm reluctant to call it this but here goes) Hird role where he positions himself forward, back or mid depending on what is needed. Lipinski becomes the next Hunter and plays his footy outside the game or he doesn't make it.
    What’s the point of Bont playing forward if he has no confidence in kicking for goal?

    He’s also one of the few mids in the team who can consistently hit a target going forward.

  15. #26
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    Re: Is Bevo burning out?

    While it rings true that our mids aren't terribly two-way inclined, we're clearly capable of games when our collective pressure's excellent and where everyone visibly 'buys in', usually fuelling our best footy where we maraud the contest in numbers, extract the pill, then we're away in numbers and it's irrepressible when it works. It's not enough to have a handful committed to pressure acts, *everyone* has to be doing it. That must be a challenge to both orchestrate and maintain from game to game.

    With that in mind I'll say one thing about Jong; he seems like a minor piece of the puzzle but he's one of our few 'see ball, chase ball' types which isn't a bad thing given he's big, fast and frenetic at the contest, and helps creates some havoc and doubt in the minds of the opposition that our silkier movers can capitalise on, and it comes naturally to him. Dahlhaus used to give us a bit of the same energy before he forgot how to kick a football.

    If there's something in that, do we consider moving on a Lipinski or McLean or (insert player name) for someone with the same sort of DNA to better complement our blue chippers and make us less one-dimensional through the middle.

    A Mitch Robinson type springs to mind, ideally without needing seven years in the system before the penny the drops.
    BORDERLINE FLYING

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  17. #27
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    Re: Is Bevo burning out?

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    Liba needs to play inside with Smith, Macrae and Dunks as the 'main group'. Bont plays forward and takes up the (I'm reluctant to call it this but here goes) Hird role where he positions himself forward, back or mid depending on what is needed. Lipinski becomes the next Hunter and plays his footy outside the game or he doesn't make it.
    Great post. I agree. Especially if Bont has that hip injury like it appears to be. Now if he could only get over the yips.

  18. #28
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    Re: Is Bevo burning out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog4life View Post
    Great post. I agree. Especially if Bont has that hip injury like it appears to be. Now if he could only get over the yips.
    He's never been a great set shot goal kicker, I don't mind the idea of playing him more as a forward because it makes sense given the compressed schedule but Mantis makes a good point about the fact his conversions should work against him being used as a forward
    Start each day with a task completed. Find someone to help you through life. Respect everyone.
    Know that life is not fair and that you will fail often. But if take you take some risks, step up when the times are toughest, face down the bullies, lift up the downtrodden and never, ever give up if you do these things, then the next generation and the generations that follow will live in a world far better than the one we have today.
    And what started here will indeed have changed the world for the better.

  19. #29
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    Re: Is Bevo burning out?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1eyedog View Post
    This is not a slap at the coach but what is going on in Bevo's head? It's not the match selections I'm referring to it's a lack of a realistic game plan. Expecting a young list to attack the game in a highly physical and mental way with a high press thrown in against older, more experienced teams is a ridiculously over optimistic game plan.
    I don't think this is our game plan at all. We are not a contested side like in 2015 and 2016. The game plan now is to move the ball quickly and play on at all costs, we are low in tackles compared to other teams. We were the number one scoring team for transition from the back half, up to a few games ago ( not sure if that is still true). However, the game plan falls apart when we can't get our hands on the ball, like last week when Richmond had 30 more disposals than we did in the first quarter.

    In our losses this year disposals as follows:

    Collingwood - 71 more - couldn't even get the ball inside 50.
    Saints - 17 more, but kicks Saints had 62 more - we over handballed due to their pressure.
    Blues we were 11 more
    Tigers 31 - all in the first quarter.

    If I had the stats for the Carlton game, it would most likely show we hardly touched the ball in the last quarter.

    Bevo needs to come up with a way of stopping the leakage of goals as MJP has banged on about in the first half last year and the losses this year. Whether Bevo has the cattle to to come up with a plan is another matter.

    I don't believe for one minute he is burnt out, but who knows.
    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

  20. #30
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    Re: Is Bevo burning out?

    We all remember the first half of last year and we were asking the same questions. 2nd half of the year we were scary good with a young side. I feel Bevo is going for all in type of game style and knows we have the players that can stand up, but can we sustain it is the question. My biggest concern is when a team works us out early and makes us play the way we don't want to can Bevo change it up .. Port and Brisbane will be a true indicator of this.
    I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day.

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