Things need to change from the top down

[GVGjr]

Which players do you think supporters have been overrating? Is there any that spring to mind?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Bont call is harsh, is carrying an injury, is still a dominant force but lacking support. Consider that both our costly quarters these last two games have coincided with Bont being stuck up forward. Also I suspect making the jump from "elite" to "actually the best player in the comp" is bloody hard, and his form can still fluctuate without him having "stagnated".

Smith is also a harsh call, he was being talked up as the best player in his draft and a huge improver as recent as two weeks ago, and is comfortably winning the Marmo despite looking exhausted these last two games.

Ok I agree it is probably harsh. I suppose I'm saying this with a view to the future. I don't think its the fault of Bont or Smith. It's our game style and overall development of players. Both these guys have unlimited potential and huge amounts of talent but are being wasted by playing this handball happy game style that congests the stoppages and forces both of them to go in and get the ball or receive the first handpass under enormous pressure. What a waste that is of their talent. Bailey with his burst speed and ability to deliver inside 50 and Bont with his lethal left foot. We just never get to see them use their talents as they're constantly stuck in mud that we create for them. We need some mids to get their hands dirty and sacrifice their game for these two.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Every supporter group overrates their players when things are going well (or straight after the draft) and underrates when things are going bad. I don't think our players individually are that bad. For mine, our list is too one dimensional and has holes as a result. Recruiting HBFer after HBFer will probably do that.

[bornadog]

Which players do you think supporters have been overrating? Is there any that spring to mind?

I would say all other than the Unknowns. Maybe they just aren't up to it?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Here's a scary thought. Imagine our backline right now if we had failed to recruit Keath.......

[bornadog]

Here's a scary thought. Imagine our backline right now if we had failed to recruit Keath.......

Second half of last year we had the best defense in the AFL, ie conceded the least goals. I thought with Keath we could boost this, or at least be more consistent

[bulldogsthru&thru]

My Take:

I still think we as supporters over rate players.

This is my list of 50/50s

Unknown

Butler, Louis Still has time.

Garcia, Riley Obvious reasons

Khamis, Buku R Finally heard something about him today in the scratch match report

Sweet, Jordon R Never been given a chance so who knows

Weightman, Cody High draft pick. Haven't really liked what I've seen to be honest but the kid is raw so has time on his side

Shown some glimpses, but possible over rated

Gardner, Ryan R What glimpse have you seen? Got hung out to dry on the weekend but he struggled to even attempt a spoil

Gowers, Billy Seen enough to know he won't make it

Greene, Fergus Had a purple patch but hasn't been seen since

Lynch, Bradley Is he still alive?

Porter, Callum Has a go but VFL quality I'm afraid

Smith, Roarke R VFL

West, Rhylee He'll be a decent depth player. As in best 22 depth. I like what I've seen. But he's in the bucket of 1 bad game and you're out.

Young, Lachie R Has his uses. Nothing special but is good backup

Disappointing - should do better but?

Schache, Josh It's pretty obvious with Josh. Has amazing talent but just doesn't put in the required effort week to week. Talls take time yes but we're not giving him much time when we drop him straight away

Young, Lewis Hopefully is still alive.

Richards, Ed Just needs to work on his skills and then will be a very good player

Hayes, Will Similar to La Young. But we're not playing him anymore so who knows. Lipinski, Pat Needs some mongrel about him to take it to the next level. He's a cream player so will be more useful once we get some more grunt in the middle The taller players take longer so Schache and Lew Young still have time.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Second half of last year we had the best defense in the AFL, ie conceded the least goals. I thought with Keath we could boost this, or at least be more consistent

I think that may have been more a reflection on the competition we were facing. I too thought Keath would boost us but we still look a tall FB short (no pun intended). Most of the issues are:
-the defenders look lost in where to position themselves
-we lack a tall full back who can take the opponents tall forward
-Wood has really fallen away
-Midfield is giving the defence not much chance to do anything

[Danjul]

My Take:

The taller players take longer so Schache and Lew Young still have time.

In my opinion Schache has proven himself.

Round 2 last year: a match winning 4 goals. 2 games later-dropped.

Returned mid season: played 8 and a half games for 20 goals.

Season performance: kicked more than 2 goals 5 times for an average close to 2.

He is the same as Dale. Build a game plan around their talents and they deliver.

Last year Dale and Schache combined for 40 goals in our winning streak, this year they are invisible and nobody will kick the ball near them. Go figure.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

In my opinion Schache has proven himself.

Round 2 last year: a match winning 4 goals. 2 games later-dropped.

Returned mid season: played 8 and a half games for 20 goals.

Season performance: kicked more than 2 goals 5 times for an average close to 2.

He is the same as Dale. Build a game plan around their talents and they deliver.

Last year Dale and Schache combined for 40 goals in our winning streak, this year they are invisible and nobody will kick the ball near them. Go figure.

Yeah a forward line of Bruce, Schache, Naughton, Wallis, Lloyd and Dale is ideal. All those guys have qualities to their game that can be a weapon. I don't think it's too tall as Schache can cover a lot of ground and play up the wings. The only issue is we have no speed to apply forward pressure. But we don't really have anyone on the list who can do that anyway.

How many times have we seen this lineup? Not once.

[kruder]

Yeah a forward line of Bruce, Schache, Naughton, Wallis, Lloyd and Dale is ideal. All those guys have qualities to their game that can be a weapon. I don't think it's too tall as Schache can cover a lot of ground and play up the wings. The only issue is we have no speed to apply forward pressure. But we don't really have anyone on the list who can do that anyway.

How many times have we seen this lineup? Not once.

Forgetting Vandermeer? He has more AFL attributes than Lloyd will ever have. I think West can also rotate through there to add some pressure also.

I agree in the sense that continuity will help with Naughty back in, lets hope Bevo can leave them long enough to gel(apart from Lloyd that is

[comrade]

Yeah a forward line of Bruce, Schache, Naughton, Wallis, Lloyd and Dale is ideal. All those guys have qualities to their game that can be a weapon. I don't think it's too tall as Schache can cover a lot of ground and play up the wings. The only issue is we have no speed to apply forward pressure. But we don't really have anyone on the list who can do that anyway.

How many times have we seen this lineup? Not once.

Wallis, Lloyd and Dale in 1 forward line is a recipe for disaster, IMO. The days of marking mid sized forwards who can't pressure and kick goals in traffic are over.

Look at Richmond, St Kilda, Brisbane, Port. All high scoring teams with a few big guys and a whole bunch of speedy smalls. Our forward line is treacle slow compared to theirs.

[Danjul]

Yeah a forward line of Bruce, Schache, Naughton, Wallis, Lloyd and Dale is ideal. All those guys have qualities to their game that can be a weapon. I don't think it's too tall as Schache can cover a lot of ground and play up the wings. The only issue is we have no speed to apply forward pressure. But we don't really have anyone on the list who can do that anyway.

How many times have we seen this lineup? Not once.

I think the concept of forward pressure is overrated. We want the forwards moving away from each other, to open up the defenders and allow good access to goals.

At the moment everyone is running towards the ball, I assume to be in position to apply pressure. All they are succeeding in doing is getting in each other’s way.

We didn’t have much forward pressure in last year’s winning streak. Players opened up, led away from each other and made good targets. Allowing quality entry by foot.

Now I’ve thought about it, being obsessed with pressure and handball is killing us.

[Grantysghost]

I think the concept of forward pressure is overrated. We want the forwards moving away from each other, to open up the defenders and allow good access to goals.

At the moment everyone is running towards the ball, I assume to be in position to apply pressure. All they are succeeding in doing is getting in each other’s way.

We didn’t have much forward pressure in last year’s winning streak. Players opened up, led away from each other and made good targets. Allowing quality entry by foot.

Now I’ve thought about it, being obsessed with pressure and handball is killing us.

Not sure about this. Its a territory game. You get it in your forward "zone" you want to setup well defensively by pushing your defenders up the ground and use your forwards to create enough pressure when they have it as to cause a rushed kick out and create those repeat entries.
Look at the gold standard. Castagna isn't a great forward. But he's a tackling beast and anaerobic guy who causes that pressure.
Dalhaus for all his detractors was a champion at this. This year, shorter quarters maybe has assisted teams like Port and the Aints. Not sure how you can plan for that.
Get your point but think it is important nowadays.

[Danjul]

Not sure about this. Its a territory game. You get it in your forward "zone" you want to setup well defensively by pushing your defenders up the ground and use your forwards to create enough pressure when they have it as to cause a rushed kick out and create those repeat entries.
Look at the gold standard. Castagna isn't a great forward. But he's a tackling beast and anaerobic guy who causes that pressure.
Dalhaus for all his detractors was a champion at this. This year, shorter quarters maybe has assisted teams like Port and the Aints. Not sure how you can plan for that.
Get your point but think it is important nowadays.

If the ball is entering well it’s going to one of our players. It should be at least a 35% chance he will mark it because he is away from his opponent. Then it should be a shot on goal. If he misses the kick then he mans up next to his opponent.

What I cannot figure out is the last part. At present it is common to see the opposition take the ball all the way into our defensive area without one of our players being within 15metres of them. That’s where I want to see pressure. Our guys trot in to stand the mark. All they are applying pressure to is grass.

Be away from opponent when ball is coming in, be next to opponent when ball is going out. The tv might give a misleading impression but it looks like our game plan has this back to front on our forward line.