Things need to change from the top down

[I'm Not Bitter Anymore!]

This season is an aberration I’m not going to judge anyone until our next regular season

[GVGjr]

It is so easy to just turn on the coach and make presumptions about his style, or what he is doing and what he is not doing. The coach can teach, instruct, set up game plans etc, but once the guys are on the field he is limited. This doesn't mean to say anyone can coach. We know Bevo can coach.

I wholeheartedly agree but his job is to address things if players are letting the side down and I wouldn't say that is a strength of Bevo.

I think the real issue is the players, and it is mostly players in the 50 to 100 game bracket that are not performing. We just don't have the cattle we think we do and we over rate most of them (which is natural because they play for us). For us to win we need our absolute best to be available (eg: Hunter, Duryea). When they are missing or injured, we don't have the depth we think we have.

We can talk about selection, and why certain players are playing, but I see very few players that can come in and make an impact that didn't play last night. May as well give some other players a go and see if they can make it.

Unfortunately we are currently stuck with the group we have, but come year end, we need a clean out of the coodabeens and a complete review of the type of players we have recruited.

If it's the players then why is it at the end of the season we don't go harder at addressing it?
You have typically been a strong supporter that we have rung the right changes at the end of the season so I'm a bit confused why you now believe there needs to be a clean out?

I think we've been reluctant to make the hard calls at the end of the season and some of that has to come back to our coaching team to explain. Some of us here have been challenging for a while now.

[bornadog]

I wholeheartedly agree but his job is to address things if players are letting the side down and I wouldn't say that is a strength of Bevo.



If it's the players then why is it at the end of the season we don't go harder at addressing it?
You have typically been a strong supporter that we have rung the right changes at the end of the season so I'm a bit confused why you now believe there needs to be a clean out?

I think we've been reluctant to make the hard calls at the end of the season and some of that has to come back to our coaching team to explain. Some of us here have been challenging for a while now.

I have been reluctant, gee GVGjr I don't understand this comment at all. What I have said is you can only make a certain amount of changes because once you start getting to pick 50 plus it is almost a guessing game and you have to be very good at recruitment, to pickup decent players. Over Bevo's time we have turned over a massive amount of the list, through either delisting or retirements, trades. If you look at the list in 2015 compared to now, we only have 10 players left out of 45 (includes rookies), so that is an average of 7 down per year. Perhaps it should have been more.

However, now is the time to make further cuts of players that are just not going to make it.

[SonofScray]

Perhaps it is Chris Grant that needs to go?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Can’t be helped sometimes. Always interested in views contrary to mine

I think Comrade meant it won’t be popular as it’ll trigger some people’s insecurities. It’s been suggested Bevo is surrounded by yes men and on hearing that he can be an absolute dictator this COULD back those claims. I’ve never implied Bevo is surrounded by yes men. I would have no idea. But I’ve been challenging our subpar performances for a while now. As per the OP we now have 4 seasons of underwhelming performances. 4 seasons off the back of a premiership with a young group. It’s unheard of. And we’ve heard all the excuses in the book, and whilst some are fair, the others just don’t hold up.
-The playing list has been cut deep over the years yet we’re still asking for it to be cut deep again.
-Players from the premiership who were 19-22 have gone backwards in development.
-We’re not seeing any difference in gameplan.
-Our contested ball ability has gone.
- We have no strong leaders.
-We have no pace.
-Our skills have not improved in 4 years and in some ways have gone backwards.
- We don’t rate the ruck yet get killed there every week and spart from two or three games it’s been a big turning point.
-We recruit 100 HBFs for the same out of date game plan.
- we have nothing that resembles a forward line
- Our defenders are constantly out of position

I could go on (and have a thread dedicated to it). But these issues have been around for years. That to me means you have to question club leadership. We can’t keep blaming the players. Ask yourself: would these players be treading water at other clubs? I can’t help but think even the likes of the Bont could be tearing the comp apart in a Collingwood or Geelong jumper. Bailey Dale could be electric at Richmond. We are stunting the growth of our players because of a stubborn coach and coaching group. I’d prefer a thorough review rather than sack Bev straight up but we CANNOT go into 2021 under the same environment.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I think Bevo gave a very instructive presser tonight.
More than what he usually gives.

Clearly was disappointed in what our mids gave around the stoppages especially in the 2nd Qtr.

Also very vehement that Hipwood's influence was not necessarily Gardner's fault.
I can attest to that from what I saw at the ground, behind the goal . I watched Gardner on Hipwood closely in 2nd and 4th Qtr.

Gardner was shoulder to shoulder with Hipwood, but when the ball came in, as play developed, he had ZERO support, and was regularly caught out trying to look at Hipwood or at times McInerny at the same time, and getting nothing from Cordy or Keath in terms of support.

I don't think Gardner is yet a good AFL player, but on tonight's performance I can 100% say he was let down not only by the players upfield, but also by fellow defenders being super slow to react to what was unfolding ahead of them.

Was surprised to see Gardner given the responsibility of playing on Hipwood when we had two more regular options in either Cordy or Keath. Losing an experienced defender in Crozier also didn’t help given his marking skill.

[CarnTheScray]

I agree Vrad. We need to find out is it a problem with the coach(es)? Or are the players not listening? If its the coach, move them on. If its the players, why? Move on the ones that offer nothing.

If its both, we are in a dire situation.

[GVGjr]

I have been reluctant, gee GVGjr I don't understand this comment at all. What I have said is you can only make a certain amount of changes because once you start getting to pick 50 plus it is almost a guessing game and you have to be very good at recruitment, to pickup decent players. Over Bevo's time we have turned over a massive amount of the list, through either delisting or retirements, trades. If you look at the list in 2015 compared to now, we only have 10 players left out of 45 (includes rookies), so that is an average of 7 down per year. Perhaps it should have been more.

However, now is the time to make further cuts of players that are just not going to make it.

The problem of a big clean out for us this year is that it coincides with a very compromised draft and there isn't a lot of form to gauge things in Victoria. We are missing a 2nd round pick as well

We will need a savvy Free agency signing

[jeemak]

I hadn't heard that Bevo was a dictator in the coach's box. That's obviously a concern.

I'm all in favour of a thorough review, and I'm also all in favour of more communication from a club that appears to have become more insular than it needs to be.

[jeemak]

The problem of a big clean out for us this year is that it coincides with a very compromised draft and there isn't a lot of form to gauge things in Victoria. We are missing a 2nd round pick as well

We will need a savvy Free agency signing

Has there been any updates on what is likely to happen to list sizes next year and beyond? I'm thinking that many will be let go and it will be difficult to justify bringing in players outside of the draft.

[GVGjr]

Has there been any updates on what is likely to happen to list sizes next year and beyond? I'm thinking that many will be let go and it will be difficult to justify bringing in players outside of the draft.

I haven't seen anything yet but you would imagine it will be reduced by a number
I tend to think you can always find room for a needs based player

[azabob]

Changes need to be made. What changes is the biggest question.

Peter Gordon and Ameet Baines have the club humming off field.

However is Peter Gordon able to see past what Beveridge has achieved to make the hard calls that need to be made?

A few off field decisions have puzzled me at the time and continue to do so.

Brett Montgomery - to me there was friction / falling out between Beveridge and Montgomery which led to Montgomery leaving. I recall a quote from Montgomery on why he left during the season, it went something along the lines of "we had different views on where my career was heading" Montgomery is now back in the AFL system and is working with Ports backline. Interesting.

Graham Lowe: This is an interesting one. He seemed to keep Beveridge on the straight and narrow in 2015 and 2016 and was a real sounding board for Beveridge. With Lowe leaving this left a vacuum.

Chris Maple who coached our VFL team to the flag in 2014 and was removed from that position to a more strategic position overseeing the player development program. Maple is now GM of football and Beveridge right hand man. Maple has been around football a long long time, but based on his career he seems to have a passion for developing and nurturing young talent. Does his skill set suit the GM of football role? Some people in life are "doers" and some are "management"

Player Development: Has Maple moving up the ranks impacted player development?

Player Selection: There does not seem to be any rhyme nor reason why some players are played and some are not.
There does not seem to be any rhyme nor reason why players are played in a variety of positions.
Players really start entering their prime once they hit the 75+ game mark. Ideally players would also play with the same group of players so they build chemistry and become familiar with how each other moves, how they think and what they are likely to do in game. By chopping and changing players position is this impacting development of the whole team?

Assistant Coaches: Obviously this area needs a refresh. But my biggest question is why on earth do we keep rotating what part of the game they look after? Changing the midfield coach, the defensive coach, the VFL coach. Beveridge loves everyone to be versatile, I get it but continuity is also key to success.

List Management- How on earth do we have 17 players with there contracts expiring in 2020 and if we are honest none of them should be on our senior list in 2021. The only player who you could mount a case for is Tyler Duyrea and that is because he has been injured all year.

[bornadog]

The problem of a big clean out for us this year is that it coincides with a very compromised draft and there isn't a lot of form to gauge things in Victoria. We are missing a 2nd round pick as well

We will need a savvy Free agency signing

I did say a clean out of the Coodabeens not a big clean out. However, as you say it would be difficult for a big clean out, which is what is probably needed.

[bornadog]

List Management- How on earth do we have 17 players with there contracts expiring in 2020 and if we are honest none of them should be on our senior list in 2021. The only player who you could mount a case for is Tyler Duyrea and that is because he has been injured all year.

There are 12 senior players (not Rookies, they have different rules of engagement) that are on the list. Of those I would keep Duryea, Jong, Wood and possibly Cavarra leaving 8 possibles to delist. Can't see anything wrong with that.

[azabob]

There are 12 senior players (not Rookies, they have different rules of engagement) that are on the list. Of those I would keep Duryea, Jong, Wood and possibly Cavarra leaving 8 possibles to delist. Can't see anything wrong with that.

I am including the rookies as they their contracts all expire. For all intent and purpose they are senior listed players (other than salary cap).