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Thread: Trade Dunkley

  1. #1111
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    Re: Trade Dunkley

    I never really thought about having Libba being back to his best (or very close to) as ever being a risk for the club, but here we are. While I'm sure playing in the ruck may have been enough to frustrate, I have a feeling it's the fact Libba had a resurgence that triggered any apprehensions about midfield minutes with us......if indeed Dunkley actually had apprehensions.
    Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.

  2. #1112
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    Re: Trade Dunkley

    Quote Originally Posted by Sedat View Post
    If he plays like he did in 2019 it is money well spent. Essendon know what he is capable of.

    This has Lachie Neale written all over it.
    Would be hard for us to pay that sort of money.
    FFC: Established 1883

    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

  3. #1113
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    Re: Trade Dunkley

    Out of curiosity, has there been a rumour of when Essendon first got in his ear?
    Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

  4. #1114
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    Re: Trade Dunkley

    Quote Originally Posted by Sedat View Post
    Of course money is a factor but he would know he is going to get a handsome contract at his current club that would be not far short of his Essendon offer, if at all.

    To even consider leaving at his age with 2 years to go on his contract, not to mention being elevated to the leadership group - it says to the outside world that the club is not a harmonious place. The best clubs have core playing groups that all stick together and take collective pay cuts in the pursuit of team success. Dunkley is a central core play for us, and he wants to leave for the unsuccessful shithole near Melbourne Airport.
    Thanks for your response.

    I possibly see it as more of an insult rather than an indictment, but there you go. Completely agree that the best clubs have core playing groups that all stick together, of course until they don't but we're not one of the best clubs as yet.
    Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.

  5. #1115
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    Re: Trade Dunkley

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldogtragic View Post
    Out of curiosity, has there been a rumour of when Essendon first got in his ear?
    Only word was "a few months ago".

  6. #1116
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    Re: Trade Dunkley

    Quote Originally Posted by jeemak View Post
    Thanks for your response.

    I possibly see it as more of an insult rather than an indictment, but there you go. Completely agree that the best clubs have core playing groups that all stick together, of course until they don't but we're not one of the best clubs as yet.
    Dunks is a fabric player who also happens to have a high ceiling, as evidenced by his devastating form in 2019. It's only my opinion but I see it as a terrible look for the club to see him openly wanting to leave. It's not a 27yo free agent looking for their last massive pay day (which I would understand).
    "Look at me mate. Look at me. I'm flyin'"

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  8. #1117
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    Re: Trade Dunkley

    Quote Originally Posted by jeemak View Post
    I never really thought about having Libba being back to his best (or very close to) as ever being a risk for the club, but here we are. While I'm sure playing in the ruck may have been enough to frustrate, I have a feeling it's the fact Libba had a resurgence that triggered any apprehensions about midfield minutes with us......if indeed Dunkley actually had apprehensions.
    I want to talk about midfield minutes and playing as a spare ruckman. We can have only 3 mids at a centre bounce. The only way you can fit 4 in is if one of them contests the actual bounce. Dunkley (or Bont/MacRae/Smith) aren't really expected to win the tap, their job begins when the ball hits the ground. At that time feasibly we should outnumber the opposition mids by one. Having Dunkley or whoever isn't actually a ruckman contest the ruck contest virtually is playing them as a midfielder.

    Unless the opposition ruckman gets a clean tap to his teammate's advantage then theoretically the numbers are to our advantage when the ball hits the ground. That's why we do it later in quarters when everyone has tired a bit and the ruckmen find it harder to get off the ground.

    That's the theory as I see it anyhow. Otherwise we'd use some a bit taller like Bruce or Cordy but they would immediately become a spare part that isn't of much use to the contest between midfielders.
    Have you been reading those Roddy Doyle books again, Dougal!?


    I have, yeah Ted, you big gobshite

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  10. #1118
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    Re: Trade Dunkley

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    I don't know what money he is on now, but it would most likely be around $400k, or even $500k? If he is being offered from what is reported around $700k, do you think we should match that? From his perspective, that is a huge increase.

    It is very hard to turn down at age 23.
    So we keep him for at least another year, preferably two. By 25 we should know what he is or isn't. If they still want him then great, if not then there would definitely be other suitors out there.
    We would be mad to trade him now imho.

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  12. #1119
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    Re: Trade Dunkley

    Quote Originally Posted by Twodogs View Post
    I want to talk about midfield minutes and playing as a spare ruckman. We can have only 3 mids at a centre bounce. The only way you can fit 4 in is if one of them contests the actual bounce. Dunkley (or Bont/MacRae/Smith) aren't really expected to win the tap, their job begins when the ball hits the ground. At that time feasibly we should outnumber the opposition mids by one. Having Dunkley or whoever isn't actually a ruckman contest the ruck contest virtually is playing them as a midfielder.

    Unless the opposition ruckman gets a clean tap to his teammate's advantage then theoretically the numbers are to our advantage when the ball hits the ground. That's why we do it later in quarters when everyone has tired a bit and the ruckmen find it harder to get off the ground.

    That's the theory as I see it anyhow. Otherwise we'd use some a bit taller like Bruce or Cordy but they would immediately become a spare part that isn't of much use to the contest between midfielders.
    Absolutely. The coach has plainly stated it's about trying to turn a weakness into an advantage in the way you've described.
    Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.

  13. #1120
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    Re: Trade Dunkley

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldogtragic View Post
    Out of curiosity, has there been a rumour of when Essendon first got in his ear?
    Quote Originally Posted by bulldogsthru&thru View Post
    Only word was "a few months ago".
    But definitely not in the first two weeks of August.
    Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.

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  15. #1121
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    Re: Trade Dunkley

    Quote Originally Posted by jeemak View Post
    But definitely not in the first two weeks of August.
    So how many games had he been rucking and not playing mid minutes by then, to a demoralizing point, such that he was receptive to moving to another club? 6-7 games in a weird season was his breaking point?
    Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

  16. #1122
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    Re: Trade Dunkley

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberdoggie View Post
    So we keep him for at least another year, preferably two. By 25 we should know what he is or isn't. If they still want him then great, if not then there would definitely be other suitors out there.
    We would be mad to trade him now imho.
    Yep. No is the simplest word in the English language to say. We hold the whip hand. Dunkley is contracted for 2 more years to play football with us and he's not going to sit out 2 years. For one thing he won't get paid because he's not fullfilling his end of the contract.

    We should set a deadline for Essendon to make an offer that suits us and if they don't then we just say that we expect Josh to play out his contract. Essendon have got in his ear, made the running and the offer and now it's up to them to make it happen.

    I don't think that they can and I think that Josh will be playing with us next year.
    Have you been reading those Roddy Doyle books again, Dougal!?


    I have, yeah Ted, you big gobshite

  17. #1123
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    Re: Trade Dunkley

    Quote Originally Posted by jeemak View Post
    Absolutely. The coach has plainly stated it's about trying to turn a weakness into an advantage in the way you've described.
    Indeed it is. It may not have worked but we gave it the good old British try and now it's time to move into a more conventional set up.

    One of the points I was trying to make though is that if Josh wants to be in the midfield ahead of some stiff competition in Bont/Jack/Libba/Baz and we can only have 3 mids at a bounce then one of the ways to achieve it is by nominally contesting the bounce.

    It's pretty much the same as being a starting mid. Use that opportunity to then prove that you deserve the spot ahead of others by getting your hands in the ball.
    Have you been reading those Roddy Doyle books again, Dougal!?


    I have, yeah Ted, you big gobshite

  18. #1124
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    Re: Trade Dunkley

    Quote Originally Posted by jeemak View Post
    So Dunkley views himself as at a minimum the third best and third most important midfielder at our club, but the club views him in his mind as the fourth.

    He wants to go to a club where he is considered the best, and isn't having to be a role player.

    Oh.....and there's the small matter of the money.

    I'm actually OK with all of that. And I also think we hold firm for a massive massive over-payment from EFC or he stays and plays where and how we want him to.

    This hasn't put any more pressure on us. The pressure on EFC to get the deal done now is astronomical.
    And if we get to the restricted free agency position in 2 years time and he want to go we have a fist round pick coming our way.....

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  20. #1125
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    Re: Trade Dunkley

    Quote Originally Posted by GVGjr View Post
    I'm not going to bag Dunkley in the slightest and I get the angst of our supporters

    The positives from my perspective are:
    We know we have done the right thing here. We committed to the player with a long contract, recognised his potential and promoted him to the leadership group and even the VC role.
    He's won a flag, played finals football and and is well respected and loved

    The negatives are:
    We have stuffed him around a bit and moved him away from the midfield but this can be resolved by the end of the trade period
    A godfather offer from a rival club has pricked his ears and an 'all about the money' player manager hasn't helped our cause

    Positives part two:
    We hold the Aces and we would be very confident that his professionalism will overcome things if he is still with us next year. I can't see the players giving him any grief and Bevo will do what he can to bring him back into the fold
    Pickering comments clearly put the acid test on Essendon to make compelling trade offers
    If we fold, we are effectively putting an open for business sign on Naughton and Smith and we won't want to do that

    Negatives part two:
    Having to deal with Essendon and Dodoro

    Option 1:
    I want 2 x second round picks this year (at least 1,500 points) and a first round pick next year

    Option 2:
    I want a first round pick this year and next.

    The pendulum shifts a bit more Essendon's way but we aren't out of the running here because we can use the Tom Papley model
    I think this is sensible. Do we really think Dunkley is or could be at the Dusty/Danger/Ablett Jnr/Judd level? He is a beast as an inside mid, but I still think he is an ordinary kick (where the above aren't) and he is one paced, where again the above aren't. In the short term 2 to 3 seasons, losing Dunks will place more pressure on Libba. It will mean that we are short if Libba goes down which given his history is not beyond the realms of possibility. We have options though. Lippa is a year behind Dunks in his development, but like Lippa is constantly played out of position. He could fill the inside mid role; Westy is one who will benefit from one of Dunks/Libba/Lippa going as it would free a spot for him and he showed enough this year to convince me that he will be a gun; Garcia - who knows, but was drafted as an inside mid; and left field Wallis could in a pinch be the inside mid.

    Aside from half backs who we have plenty of, I think inside mid is a position we can cover. If we play this right it sets us up well. He is worth more to the bombers that he is to us, so lets make them pay or we keep him.

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