Offseason recruiting priorities

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

This is the important part.

Schache is a proven performer with the Dogs. He had 13 games last year and kicked goals in 10. Multiple goals 7 times.

He was pretty close to being our most consistent forward. Last year he was getting goals at the same rate Wallis is this year.

Schache should be playing, purely based on what I have seen.

To save people from looking it up...

Wallis has had 13 games this year and kicked goals in 10. Multiple goals 5 times

You make it sound as if its inexplicable as to why Schache is not being played.
We know that at his best he adds important dimensions to our game. However consistency eludes him, and thats the problem. When he's not on he is woeful and is an offensive and defensive liability.

I'm sure we would live to have him in our 22, but on our terms, not his, when he feels like it.
I dare say that if he hadn't been injured of late, and had some solid track record, he'd have pushed Bruce for a spot in the past month.

Its up to Schache to fulfill his potential, not for us to just play him because ladt year he played some good games.

[wb_age]

Schache would do no worse than Bruce and that’s setting the bar extremely low on the back of Bruce’s output for the past month.

I don’t understand how Bruce has such a green light yet Schache is on such a tight rope.

Feels like it’s a pride thing regarding his recruitment, salary and contract. But on the other hand it’s not applied to Trengrove. So who the hell knows what’s happening with match selection

[Danjul]

Disagree with any comparison between Schache and Wallis.

8 of Schaches 13 H&A games last year were after the bye, second half of the season where we hit our straps and the majority of his multi goal hauls were in a winning side. The game against Collingwood last year he was fantastic, but outside that he was an ok player in a team in great form.

He has oodles of natural ability, and still has potential if he can address his flaws - but to date he is the epitome of a downhill skier.

Wally on the other hand has emerged this year as a natural leader and on field role model. His hardness, work rate and results have been outstanding - he has stood up multiple times against better opposition and provides more than scoreboard pressure.

I know the conversation isn’t Wally or shack - but the comparison around their impact/output doesn’’t stack up. Now against Bruce.... another matter - but also different type of player.

I’m not suggesting we move schache on, but I’m not surprised he isnt playing based on what I’ve seen him contribute of late.

I think you sell him short. The following week he kicked 3 goals in the wet against Port, in my opinion he was one of the best on ground generating an unexpected win. He certainly was not a passenger.

The simple fact of the matter is when he plays we usually win. He also got goals against Brisbane, I think the team lost that game.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Schache would do no worse than Bruce and that’s setting the bar extremely low on the back of Bruce’s output for the past month.

I don’t understand how Bruce has such a green light yet Schache is on such a tight rope.

Feels like it’s a pride thing regarding his recruitment, salary and contract. But on the other hand it’s not applied to Trengrove. So who the hell knows what’s happening with match selection

It depends on what factors or match attributes are considered salient by the coaching team. Also, as I think MJP might've said ( apologies if it was someone else), Schache isn't vying for Bruce's position, but more likely the role Wallis is performing.
That's not denying that Bruce's form would not be a concern, but if he and Schache aren't competing for the same spot it just means comparing the two is irrelevant.

No one is denying Schache's ability, more his ability to lift the difference between his best and worst games.
When he's bad, he is a complete passenger.

[Danjul]

It depends on what factors or match attributes are considered salient by the coaching team. Also, as I think MJP might've said ( apologies if it was someone else), Schache isn't vying for Bruce's position, but more likely the role Wallis is performing.
That's not denying that Bruce's form would not be a concern, but if he and Schache aren't competing for the same spot it just means comparing the two is irrelevant.

No one is denying Schache's ability, more his ability to lift the difference between his best and worst games.
When he's bad, he is a complete passenger.

In his last 8 games last year he was very good. His game against North this year was fine.

Then he was dragged and sat on the bench. (I think it was wet and the whole team struggled)

So 1 bad game in 10. Or am I watching games in a parallel universe?

His treatment is a stark contrast to some others in the team.

Bruce came in as a goal kicker. He has been goalless 6 times, and got one a few times. But he is not a passenger?

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

In his last 8 games last year he was very good. His game against North this year was fine.

Then he was dragged and sat on the bench. (I think it was wet and the whole team struggled)

So 1 bad game in 10. Or am I watching games in a parallel universe?

His treatment is a stark contrast to some others in the team.

Bruce came in as a goal kicker. He has been goalless 6 times, and got one a few times. But he is not a passenger?

You are cherry picking, and also adding a bit of mayo on top. His performances as a group last year were better than what he's delivered in any other given stretch of time with us. But not 'very good'.
Scroll down to his stats. https://afltables.com/afl/stats/play...h_Schache.html

We were also performing, as a team very well during the stretch last year, with multiple goalscoring threats. I'm not saying he didn't contribute, but let's not gild the lily and pretend his form was eye-poppingly good.

Again, forget Bruce. He (Schache) can't play or hasn't shown to date he can play the role expected of Bruce. He isn't competing with him.
And therefore it's a bit intellectually dishonest to conflate Schache's exclusion as unfair in light of Bruce's poor performance.

Also, he wasn't just bad in our loss to Carlton, he was putrid, and rightly dragged because he was giving us nothing offensively, and a witches hat for Carlton to manoeuvre around coming back out.
Subsequent to that, he's been concussed and has had to work his way back.

Now if Wallis was not performing, and Schache was showing some solid work in training on the deficiencies that saw him dropped, then that would be an appropriate time to cry foul about his non-inclusion.

[Topdog]

Again, forget Bruce. He (Schache) can't play or hasn't shown to date he can play the role expected of Bruce. He isn't competing with him.
And therefore it's a bit intellectually dishonest to conflate Schache's exclusion as unfair in light of Bruce's poor performance.

Also, he wasn't just bad in our loss to Carlton, he was putrid, and rightly dragged because he was giving us nothing offensively, and a witches hat for Carlton to manoeuvre around coming back out.
Subsequent to that, he's been concussed and has had to work his way back.

Now if Wallis was not performing, and Schache was showing some solid work in training on the deficiencies that saw him dropped, then that would be an appropriate time to cry foul about his non-inclusion.

Fully agree that Schache isnt competing with Bruce for a spot but he also isnt competing with Mitch Wallis who is basically playing as a stay at home FF.

RE: The Carlton game, its funny, Schache was putrid in that game but when we talk about witches hats Josh was off the ground when we conceded 6 goals in the last qtr.

For me he is competing for the Dale/Lloyd spot.

[jeemak]

Fully agree that Schache isnt competing with Bruce for a spot but he also isnt competing with Mitch Wallis who is basically playing as a stay at home FF.

RE: The Carlton game, its funny, Schache was putrid in that game but when we talk about witches hats Josh was off the ground when we conceded 6 goals in the last qtr.

For me he is competing for the Dale/Lloyd spot.

Who has that spot at the moment with both out of the team, are suggesting that role is an either/ or role between it and the crumbing role?

[Danjul]

You are cherry picking, and also adding a bit of mayo on top. His performances as a group last year were better than what he's delivered in any other given stretch of time with us. But not 'very good'.
Scroll down to his stats. https://afltables.com/afl/stats/play...h_Schache.html

We were also performing, as a team very well during the stretch last year, with multiple goalscoring threats. I'm not saying he didn't contribute, but let's not gild the lily and pretend his form was eye-poppingly good.

Again, forget Bruce. He (Schache) can't play or hasn't shown to date he can play the role expected of Bruce. He isn't competing with him.
And therefore it's a bit intellectually dishonest to conflate Schache's exclusion as unfair in light of Bruce's poor performance.
.

I am not saying hSchache had a good game against Carlton. He didn’t. But he wasn’t the sole reason the team was so poor. But he has carried more than his fair share of blame.

I am saying his previous 10 were better than Ok. And the one earlier against Hawks was a match winning four goals. I am suggesting that no other player who has contributed goals as he did last year has been described as not ‘very good “. Last year he contributed goals at a significantly greater rate than Dickson. In the games Schache played Lloyd got the same number of goals. That puts him in good company. None of the others get dismissed as simply passengers in a good team.

I am saying that in the Carlton game Bruce also played badly. I am saying in 9 games Bruce has played badly. 6 goals in 9 games I think.

In his first two games last year Gardner averaged 6 possessions and 1 goal a game. Take out Bruce’s Best game and that’s about his standard. I see Bruce competing with Gardner - their histories with this club have been comparable. So what role does Bruce have that he is doing well enough to get selected so often. Frequently goalless so it’s obviously not full forward.

I don’t see Schache competing with Wallis. They have entirely different characteristics. Wallis has strength and is good close in against 1 or 2 opponents. Schache has mobility and is good beyond Wallis ‘ goal range. I see them complementing each other.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Fully agree that Schache isnt competing with Bruce for a spot but he also isnt competing with Mitch Wallis who is basically playing as a stay at home FF.

RE: The Carlton game, its funny, Schache was putrid in that game but when we talk about witches hats Josh was off the ground when we conceded 6 goals in the last qtr.

For me he is competing for the Dale/Lloyd spot.

The 6 goal last qtr,was a different story. We had to roll the dice tobpeg back their lead. That left us exposed to turnover,cwhich Carlton duly capitalised on.

[bornadog]

This thread is way off topic, but a good discussion.

[Danjul]

The 6 goal last qtr,was a different story. We had to roll the dice tobpeg back their lead. That left us exposed to turnover,cwhich Carlton duly capitalised on.

The bad is good and the frequently good are usually bad.

We pegged back their lead by minus six goals. Well that didn’t work too well. Actually it did more damage than Schache poor game because it wrecked the percentage. I would like to see the person responsible benched. If they got into the habit of selecting balanced teams they would not have to roll the dice.

We have lost 2 of the last 3 games against Carlton at the selection table. And the third was unnecessarily close. The first one last year was the worst team selection I have ever seen. No respect for the opposition and purely based on adoration of a game plan that has rarely succeeded in the past three years. But why not try it again?

we have a history of poor quarters, probably because the frantic game plan is unsustainable for 4 quarters. That’s why the good opposition can frequently put the cue in the rack before the final siren.

[Danjul]

This thread is way off topic, but a good discussion.

Sorry, but I get annoyed by the suggestion to trade Schache because he is a passenger.

[AshMac]

I think you sell him short. The following week he kicked 3 goals in the wet against Port, in my opinion he was one of the best on ground generating an unexpected win. He certainly was not a passenger.

The simple fact of the matter is when he plays we usually win. He also got goals against Brisbane, I think the team lost that game.

His game against Port was good - from memory he took a couple of good contested marks and scored on a very slippery day.

It’s a bit skewed to say when he plays we win, as the other angle is when we’re winning he plays - and more often when we are in form as a whole team he plays well.

The question really is do we persevere - I’d be happy to part with him for a decent trade but see upside if he can lift his intensity and physicality. Dickson being named puts him further back in the pecking order than I thought. Do we continue with a guy that clearly needs games to improve but we aren’t prepared to give them to him.

One thing I’m pondering is - has the junior level footy programs become so good that enough KPP’s enter the league with immediate impact - King brothers, Naughton etc. - and supporters have become too impatient with big guys and the constant media (social and traditional) abuse and expectation takes a toll before they realise potential.

[The Doctor]

Our footy dept could use some bolstering. I think Graeme Lowe leaving a couple of years back left a big hole. One of the best manager's ever could be on the market in Neil Balme. He has helped 3 clubs into 8 grand finals. There is no rival to that kind of record. We should at least be enquiring in my view;

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/08/...f-other-clubs/