Always Right Match Committee - Round 16 Vs Eagles 2020

[DOG GOD]

Did you listen to the press conference?

No, and I don’t need to. If others want to accept it, that’s their choice, opinion or whatever Bornadog, but I personally find it farcical, and by what I just heard Dunstall and Riewoldt discuss on fox footy, I’m not alone.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Agreed. Whether it's the right strategy we won't know, but if they don't think Sweet is ready then we have to try and flip things to try and secure a point of difference around the ground.

Not saying I like it, though the response didn't come across as ill considered.

Absolutely. I reckon Bevo would acknowledge, in a perfect world this isn't how we would like to set up.

In some regard its a testament to and acknowledgement of the other aspects that Tim brings to the overall team plan that forces Bevo's hand to actually select him! He is too valuable in other aspects of our game to leave out solely based on his deficiencies as a tap ruckman.

All teams have deficiencies; and all coaches have to weigh up the strengths and weaknesses and either try to set up a plan that amplifies the strengths and or mitigates the weaknesses to hopefully create a net positive result.
Unfortunately we don't have a parallel universe visible to us to both see how we play without Tim in this role and also at the same time see how we play without us structuring ruck this way!

Therefore we only see the goals given up when it doesn't work, but don't see how the game would play out without him playing this role.
So we end up with this confirmation bias that says well we gave up 2 goals blah blah because Macrae or Dunkley were in the ruck. We don't see how without Tim playing may result in us not getting 3 or 4 goal opportunities or how we may concede 2 or more goals because he's not there bringing his other skills to our team plan.

It isn't our goal for this set up to occur, it's just reality right now, and whether we like it or not, as Jeemak said, it's not done on a whim, there is a lot of thought driving it. And you can be sure it's not stubborness or ignorance that is at play.

If you go back and listen to Bevo's pressers when talking about Tim, whether its after he's had a good or a bad game, he always mentions stuff like 'we know what Tim brings to our side, and we also know he's got more improvement to come that will only make us better. We also know we have to put support in place to help him in the areas he's still got to improve on."

[comrade]

That’s all well and good, but it’s not working. We’re in 10th spot.

[DOG GOD]

If Tim sees this as his “role” in the team, would it come as surprise to anyone on here if he asked for a trade? What does it say about our list if our coach and MC aren’t confident in any ruckman we have on our list. English not good enough yet, Trengove too slow and old, sweet to cut the oranges etc etc.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Whatever Bevo is thinking, what is this doing to English’s confidence and WTF is this doing to Dunkley’s career.
I’ll continue to shake my head and will never accept it.

I wouldn’t get too upset DG. This problem started 3-4 years ago when the Club allowed itself to be left with one inexperienced ruck man in English. To see Dunkley trying to compete for long periods against 200 cm ruck men in Blicavs and Stanley was bordering on absurdity. To make matters worse we have sacrificed Dunkley’s ability to gain 25-30 possessions each week in his midfield role which took the pressure off the likes of Bont and Libba. The one player who is capable of playing as a second ruck and sharing the load with English is Lew Young but it seems Bev has other ideas.

[DOG GOD]

I wouldn’t get too upset DG. This problem started 3-4 years ago when the Club allowed itself to be left with one inexperienced ruck man in English. To see Dunkley trying to compete for long periods against 200 cm ruck men in Blicavs and Stanley was bordering on absurdity. To make matters worse we have sacrificed Dunkley’s ability to gain 25-30 possessions each week in his midfield role which took the pressure off the likes of Bont and Libba. The one player who is capable of playing as a second ruck and sharing the load with English is Lew Young but it seems Bev has other ideas.

Well said Nuggety. I try not to let it get to me, but I can see a career or two ruined by craziness. Lin Jong can probably thank his lucky stars he’s injured right now.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

That’s all well and good, but it’s not working. We’re in 10th spot.

If you're reducing the totality of our performances down to that one aspect then, well, I actually don't know what to say. Find some nuance maybe.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

If Tim sees this as his “role” in the team, would it come as surprise to anyone on here if he asked for a trade? What does it say about our list if our coach and MC aren’t confident in any ruckman we have on our list. English not good enough yet, Trengove too slow and old, sweet to cut the oranges etc etc.

Rubbish.
Equally if Tim thinks he's being harshly dealt with, and seriously thinks he's a ready made tap ruckman right now then good luck to him.
I'd say the inverse is true. He's a smart fella, he would be well aware of the things he needs to improve on, and would feel buoyed by the fact the coach thinks so much of his all round skills that he's willing to find other ways to keep him in the team to make use of his other talents.

[GVGjr]

I think Bevo made a decent case in that interview to counter that view, and also give an insight into the broader way AFL coaches analyse whether something is working or not than supporters do.

Bevo doesn't contend rucks aren't important. I thibk he's saying its not a strength of ours and our best way is to mitigate our weakness, rather than sinply try and win a tap to look good and stuff our game plan.

We basically dared the outcome we are faced with (using Dunks a lot and others like Macrae and Bonts on occasions etc) given we chose not to address it during the trade and draft periods.
This isn't like we have been struck down with injuries and run out of options, we were always likely to be faced with this.
Despite Bevo using the numbers they way that he did, it's just not working and I wonder what effect it also be having with reduced midfield rotations/options while Dunks is wrestling with the bigger ruck man?

We went into the season with a quality young ruck man who needed some support, a rookie ruck man who has still not been played and an older player who's best footy in 2019 was as a key defender and we have only used him once this year.
Dunks and co were the next options and it appears Dunks was the 2nd option

If Bevo is saying it's not a strength of ours was our plan going into 2020 to just be average at it?

[DOG GOD]

Rubbish.
Equally if Tim thinks he's being harshly dealt with, and seriously thinks he's a ready made tap ruckman right now then good luck to him.
I'd say the inverse is true. He's a smart fella, he would be well aware of the things he needs to improve on, and would feel buoyed by the fact the coach thinks so much of his all round skills that he's willing to find other ways to keep him in the team to make use of his other talents.

I’m not saying he would ask for a trade, I just suggested what we would think if he DID ask for a trade?

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I wouldn’t get too upset DG. This problem started 3-4 years ago when the Club allowed itself to be left with one inexperienced ruck man in English. To see Dunkley trying to compete for long periods against 200 cm ruck men in Blicavs and Stanley was bordering on absurdity. To make matters worse we have sacrificed Dunkley’s ability to gain 25-30 possessions each week in his midfield role which took the pressure off the likes of Bont and Libba. The one player who is capable of playing as a second ruck and sharing the load with English is Lew Young but it seems Bev has other ideas.

Amid the simplified hyperbole you have also hit in yet another factor the coach and players have to tussle with. And it must be a source of consternation to all - coach and player- no doubt.

1. We are deficient in quality ruck stocks! We should not be in this situation...but yet, here we are..How do we make the best of it??
2. Bevo could give way to the punters, and play a conventional tap ruck role...tell me..how did that work out in Rnd 1 against Grundy???? How did it work in round 2 against the Saints and Marshall??,
3. Bevo and the team are desperately trying to find a way to mitigate the problem for the now and Dunks being the consummate team player is stepping up to take one for the team good.
Would we look better optically with Dunks doing Dunks things racking up 30 possies..yep. but would it outweigh our broader deficiencies ala Rnd 1 & 2 with Timmy in a conventional role? I don't know? But clearly Bevo and the coaches think so. And whether or not I agree, I am confident they're not making the decision on a whim.

[DOG GOD]

If Bevo is saying it's not a strength of ours was our plan going into 2020 to just be average at it?

And this is what really shits me.

[comrade]

If you're reducing the totality of our performances down to that one aspect then, well, I actually don't know what to say. Find some nuance maybe.

My point is that maybe the bloke that has us in 10th spot and a 46% win rate over the last 4 seasons doesn’t actually have it all under control. Why would you just blindly accept his reasoning?

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

We basically dared the outcome we are faced with (using Dunks a lot and others like Macrae and Bonts on occasions etc) given we chose not to address it during the trade and draft periods.
This isn't like we have been struck down with injuries and run out of options, we were always likely to be faced with this.
Despite Bevo using the numbers they way that he did, it's just not working and I wonder what effect it also be having with reduced midfield rotations/options while Dunks is wrestling with the bigger ruck man?

We went into the season with a quality young ruck man who needed some support, a rookie ruck man who has still not been played and an older player who's best footy in 2019 was as a key defender and we have only used him once this year.
Dunks and co were the next options and it appears Dunks was the 2nd option

If Bevo is saying it's not a strength of ours was our plan going into 2020 to just be average at it?

I suspect Rnd 1 and 2 gave Bevo a massive reality check as to where things would go for the rest of the year should we not rethink how we set up at the ruck contest.
I don't disagree that we were at best naive not addressing this position inn the offseason (for the last 4 years!!)
That's a strategic failure that the club has to acknowledge head on.
I'll be super pissed if we stick our head in the sand this off season!
But for me Kudos to the coach for trying to find alternative solutions within the season to try and mitigate.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

No, and I don’t need to. If others want to accept it, that’s their choice, opinion or whatever Bornadog, but I personally find it farcical, and by what I just heard Dunstall and Riewoldt discuss on fox footy, I’m not alone.

So your okay with just listening to what outsiders say, because it lines up with your view, but not willing to hear from someone inside the club who might give some perspective on why we're doing what we do?