List Management for 2020/21

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I think we should hold off on popping the champagne on Saints' strategy just yet.
I am not sure they haven't pushed their bigger problems down the road in order to try find some short terms solutions to give them a modest ladder boost.

They've not had any decent slurps at the draft trough since Max King. They traded out of first and second rounds last year. They don't have any first round picks this year either.
I see their list as lacking in genuine elite talent outside of Marshall, and potentially Clark, Coffield and Max King if their trajectory continues as expected
.
I think their additions have given them a lift, sure but beside improvement in King, Clark and Coffield where is the young talent that is going to lift them further than where they are?

I think in in 3 years time as Hill hits the 30's...his output won't be as pivotal, and the two years of no early draft picks, might start to bite them.

I'm pretty sure they have a 1st round pick this year don't they?

[Mofra]

Just continuing on a theme in another thread: I don't remember, but were Butler and Dougal Howard ever discussed last year as being worthy candidates? I certainly would have been underwhelmed at the suggestion of getting them this time last year.

IIRC we asked the question about Howard last year, and most Woofers were keen too.
In either 2018 or 19 he led the comp for spoils. The kid knows how to defend and has really good closing speed for a KPD.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I think the King/Marshall tandem is almost a game changer in itself. Two of the most challenging positions to fill, and they have a 24 and 20 year old filling them.

Clark and Coffield definitely look the goods, and I would be surprised if they don't push into the midfield over the coming years. Gresham had a really strong 2018/2019, but I'm not sure of how big his upside is - still only 23. They would be banking on Steele being the central cog of their midfield for years to come, and they have big wraps on Bytel and Battle. Billings not being a dominant elite player is costing them, nor did McCartin's concussions.

Howard and Butler have both been strong inclusions and are only 24yo. I was keen on Howard, and the saints orchestrated a great trade for him. They will definitely have to replace Ryder's role in coming years, but I think they still have plenty to work with.

Yeah I think they have as much young talent as we do. Marshall, King, Coffield, Clark, Gresham, Billings, Steele can rival Bont, Macrae, Dunkley, Naughton, Smith, English, Daniel for us. Granted they don't yet have anyone of Bonts calibre but the others are fairly even. It's their midfield that lets them down but if rumours are true that theyre going all our for Taranto, they're certainly trying to address it.

The other thing to consider is that, even if the recruits of Hill, Hannebery, Ryder, Butler etc only have a short term effect, it might be enough to convince others to join the party. How we didn't profit from our 2016 flag is beyond me.

[mjp]

The St Kilda plan seems very similar to me to the 'Brisbane Plan' and the 'Carlton Plan'.

One swallow doesn't make a summer. Bringing in 5x players from other clubs over a single off-season to 'plug holes' sounds like an amazing quick fix solution but it has failed more often that it has worked. The Saints brought in 2x A-graders (Hill and Howard), one solid 'B' (Jones), one old bloke with maybe something left (Ryder) and one roll-of-the-dice on a bloke who couldn't get a game (Butler).

It has worked for right now but I am really unsure if this is a strategy we should be thinking about. We targeted two players last year (Keath and Bruce) and got both. This year it is all about JUH. We need to ensure we have the draft capital to land this kid. That needs to be the priority. I agree with everyone who says we need ruck support...well, Sweet will be 3x pre-seasons in by the time round 1 rolls around...this is the natural order of things. As for the KPD discussions, we can't be crying about Le Young not getting a game or Schache not getting a game and at the same time calling for MORE players to come in and compete for the same roles...Not if we understand that only 22 can play in any case!

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I'm pretty sure they have a 1st round pick this year don't they?

I thought they had moved it on. but upon checking I think you're right they do have one.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I thought they had moved it on. but upon checking I think you're right they do have one.

I think they traded their 2020 2nd rounder and didn't use their 2019 one.

Looking at their trades last year, they essentially gave up pick 6 and Blacke Acres for Butler, Howard, Ryder and Hill. That's good trading.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I think they traded their 2020 2nd rounder and didn't use their 2019 one.

Looking at their trades last year, they essentially gave up pick 6 and Blacke Acres for Butler, Howard, Ryder and Hill. That's good trading.

They definitely moved their 2019 second round on, because they had their first pick, Byrnes, somewhere in the 50s.

[comrade]

The St Kilda plan seems very similar to me to the 'Brisbane Plan' and the 'Carlton Plan'.

One swallow doesn't make a summer. Bringing in 5x players from other clubs over a single off-season to 'plug holes' sounds like an amazing quick fix solution but it has failed more often that it has worked. The Saints brought in 2x A-graders (Hill and Howard), one solid 'B' (Jones), one old bloke with maybe something left (Ryder) and one roll-of-the-dice on a bloke who couldn't get a game (Butler).

It has worked for right now but I am really unsure if this is a strategy we should be thinking about. We targeted two players last year (Keath and Bruce) and got both. This year it is all about JUH. We need to ensure we have the draft capital to land this kid. That needs to be the priority. I agree with everyone who says we need ruck support...well, Sweet will be 3x pre-seasons in by the time round 1 rolls around...this is the natural order of things. As for the KPD discussions, we can't be crying about Le Young not getting a game or Schache not getting a game and at the same time calling for MORE players to come in and compete for the same roles...Not if we understand that only 22 can play in any case!

We have the draft capital to get JUH, if all we do is shuffle our picks around just to ensure we don't go into a deficit next year, it will be a lost opportunity.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

All seems to have gone quiet on Ewen Macpherson?
Obviously alot of column inches devoted to us and JUH, and there's been some on Raak as well potentially being a pick, but I've heard nothing on Ewen Macpherson.

[bornadog]

The St Kilda plan seems very similar to me to the 'Brisbane Plan' and the 'Carlton Plan'.

One swallow doesn't make a summer. Bringing in 5x players from other clubs over a single off-season to 'plug holes' sounds like an amazing quick fix solution but it has failed more often that it has worked. The Saints brought in 2x A-graders (Hill and Howard), one solid 'B' (Jones), one old bloke with maybe something left (Ryder) and one roll-of-the-dice on a bloke who couldn't get a game (Butler).

It has worked for right now but I am really unsure if this is a strategy we should be thinking about. We targeted two players last year (Keath and Bruce) and got both. This year it is all about JUH. We need to ensure we have the draft capital to land this kid. That needs to be the priority. I agree with everyone who says we need ruck support...well, Sweet will be 3x pre-seasons in by the time round 1 rolls around...this is the natural order of things. As for the KPD discussions, we can't be crying about Le Young not getting a game or Schache not getting a game and at the same time calling for MORE players to come in and compete for the same roles...Not if we understand that only 22 can play in any case!

Pretty sure we will trade our first round pick (12) for as many picks as possible to make up the JUH points needed.

Other than that, we most likely will target to trade for a keyback, and a small forward and then we will be done.

We also should be drafting a young developing athletic ruckman for the future.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Pretty sure we will trade our first round pick (12) for as many picks as possible to make up the JUH points needed.

Other than that, we most likely will target to trade for a keyback, and a small forward and then we will be done.

We also should be drafting a young developing athletic ruckman for the future.

Why? Are we trading English?

[bornadog]

Why? Are we trading English?

I said draft. Draft an 18 year old now for the future.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Drafting a 18 y.o skinny ruck is the absolute last thing our club needs right now.

We've got a physically underdeveloped English and an untried Sweet - we need support (IMO a first ruck if not undeniably a break glass ruck) yesterday.

[bornadog]

Drafting a 18 y.o skinny ruck is the absolute last thing our club needs right now.

We've got a physically underdeveloped English and an untried Sweet - we need support (IMO a first ruck if not undeniably a break glass ruck) yesterday.

Why? You need all sorts of players on your list including rucks - even if they are on the rookie list.

I am not saying to not get a first ruck ( I doubt we will)

You need to put development time into players. If you draft an 18 year old now, he probably doesn't start contributing till he is around 22/23 years old and by then English will be 27 and at his peak.

If Trengove doesn't get a new contract then we are left with just English and untried Sweet. Bring in a mature guy plus a developing player and suddenly we have back up.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

If Trengove doesn't get a new contract then we are left with just English and untried Sweet. Bring in a mature guy plus a developing player and suddenly we have back up.

Where do you play them all? If we go in with one ruck next year, you would then have 3 to fit into the VFL program and at least 2 would have their development stifled by being played out of position. That aside and assuming we'd play 2 in that case, to have around 10% of your list invested in pure rucks is overkill - different if they're able to play multiple positions but there's not many of them around.