List Management for 2020/21

[jeemak]

Just so everyone knows what the selection committee thinks is a proper forward.

Bruce played 11 games from rounds 6 to 18 as a key forward. Rested in one.

In that time he kicked goals in only 4 of them, for a total of 5 goals.

He got 2 goals in the 7 matches leading up to the final - I think that was a month and a half.
He got 2 possessions in round 10. Selected the next game.

In the final he showed no positives.

Yet everyone makes excuses for him and sees him as our star forward next season. This makes no sense for forward planning.

Good luck to all of the players, particularly Bruce if our success rests on him . I hope they all have a great 2021.

So are you saying that Josh Dunkley should be played in the ruck ongoing?

[jeemak]

If Hannan has replaced Gowers on the list, has the list improved?

If Stef Martin replaces Trengove on the list, has the list improved?

If Treloar replaces Dunkley on the list, has the list improved?

It seems like a very sideways trade period for us at the moment, at best.

Hannan over Gowers.
Martin over Trengove
Treloar over Dunkley short term with a caveat on Treloar's body. Massive risk.

Ideally we'd get Treloar and keep Dunkley and find a way to make it all work given Libba's a one on one off proposition these days and we're going back to a full season and longer quarters.

[jeemak]

You can disagree with me all good. How did the saints go the next week? The final that we played against them was lengths below the top 4, it was like a standard Saturday game there was no intensity, minimal pressure, missed tackles all over the joint.

Go back and watch 16 or in the matter any Richmond final there is a significant difference.

I think the Saints played exactly how they wanted to against us and get the kudos for it, but we were terrible (again) and only lost by less than a kick. We definitely have personnel issues that stop us from being top four, but what's stopping us from scratching at the door is between the ears with our group and I really hope maturity settles it because it doesn't look like bringing in cattle will this trade period.

[Danjul]

It's interesting because we're a team that moves the ball quickly and delivers well based on the stats, particularly when we're playing well.

Could it be that Dale was just a bit shit this year and this is what hampered him the most in terms of output and opportunity? I know we look for reasons for poor performance of players that are more structural, strategic or tactical, but sometimes players are just a bit shit and I reckon this might be the case with the likes of Dale and Lloyd.

Additionally, Wallis had a consistent year in a role that has usually opened up opportunity for players meaning those two previously mentioned were only going to cement a regular spot if playing really well.

With respect to Schache I'm of the view he just needs to bulk up and play as a second ruck if he wants a career. But I'm possibly on my own with that.

For a long time I didn’t see Dale as relevant. But then I noticed how he finds space in a crowded area. Usually an accurate kick, so a good finisher. Not surprised that he can get a few goals.

He is wasted spending long periods on the backline and running the length of the ground. Making him versatile limits his ability to contribute.

[jeemak]

I guess with Wallis having a good season as the dedicated mid-sized forward Dale was expected to be a bit more versatile (as was Lloyd) to find a spot. It's a shame he couldn't because I really rate him.

If he stays on the list with longer quarters and more games in a season I think things are likely to work more in his favour as opportunities are going to open up more so than they did this year.

[Danjul]

So are you saying that Josh Dunkley should be played in the ruck ongoing?

What I have said consistently for 3 years is the ruck is a job for developed ruckmen.

The Dogs have a different view.

Every time We have used Dunkley, Macrae etc we have lost the momentum and the opposition has gained advantage. It has cost games, most recently the final.

That is not criticism of the players. But we we play a style where the team is less than the sum of the parts.

(The only success was Cordy against Goldstein late in the game in2019. I think he got 8 hitouts. allowed English to go forward and get a couple of goals )

[bornadog]

What I have said consistently for 3 years is the ruck is a job for developed ruckmen.

This is the list management thread, so I would love to hear what your solution is going forward? We know what has happened over the past three or so years, so let's get a solution for the future. Something that is realistic.

[Mofra]

This is the list management thread, so I would love to hear what your solution is going forward? We know what has happened over the past three or so years, so let's get a solution for the future. Something that is realistic.

I honestly think Stef Martin works for us - English is close to ready and will be better prepared after two more pre-seasons.

He enables English to be managed through the year as there is no way Martin plays every game. He gets to train day in, day out against an experienced, mature ruck this pre-season.

[SonofScray]

I honestly think Stef Martin works for us - English is close to ready and will be better prepared after two more pre-seasons.

He enables English to be managed through the year as there is no way Martin plays every game. He gets to train day in, day out against an experienced, mature ruck this pre-season.

We needed meat and potatoes in the ruck at various points. JT could ave done the job IMO but for whatever reason the Club opted not to use him. Here's where I saw things a few weeks ago:

Play JT, or
Get Goldstein, or
Get Martin.

Martin is coming across after the fact, that's my fear, but I think the idea has merit.

[The Underdog]

Gardner and Sweet both with 1 year contract extensions on the rookie list.
Sensible calls on both.

[Bulldog4life]

Josh has always been just a little laconic but is it fixable? I honestly didn't think he would succeed when I first saw him play.

Just needs a cracker up his bum sometimes.

[Bulldog4life]

Trading is about getting players on the upswing, not paying big dollars for past performance and getting the worst of it. I'd take Caldwell on 500k before I'd take Treloar on 700+

Yes and Treloar is 7 to 8 years older with a some hammy problems which is a worry.

[Danjul]

This is the list management thread, so I would love to hear what your solution is going forward? We know what has happened over the past three or so years, so let's get a solution for the future. Something that is realistic.

Scott Wynd was 102 cm and 108kg.
Minson: 199 And 106 kg.

English is 106 cm and 100 kg.
Simply the wrong proportions to succeed against wrestlers.

English can’t compete against greater power density, the laws of physics are against him. His opponents can use leverage against him.

Excellent design for a second ruck though. They don’t usually have to compete against monsters. And he is so talented in all other aspects.

If fit Martin might be a good interim move. Need to find a shorter/heavier ruckman for the long term. I suspect the whole team will seem better with this one modification.

[soupman]

Scott Wynd was 102 cm and 108kg.

Ruckmen clearly used to be a lot more nuggety.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Ruckmen clearly used to be a lot more nuggety.

And we all thought Libba was tiny