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  1. #1606
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    Re: List Management for 2020/21

    Breaking down like this, if the assumption is Raak doesn't get a bid:

    38 Main List - 34 already contracted, JUH & MacPherson - Last two spots Hayes & Cavarra, or one and another pick, or one and a DFA
    4 Rookie List A - Sweet, Gardner, *Smith, Live Pick
    2 Rookie List B - Khamis, *Raak

    The maximum list numbers.

    Say Jetta or Stack or some DFA talent is desired. Hayes can always be delisted and picked up with our one live pick in the rookie draft if he gets to our pick. A somewhat safe bet.

    Then it's:

    In: JUH, MacPherson, Raak, *DFA, Treloar, Martin, Hannan, Hayes (RL)
    Out: Dickson (ret), JT, Suckling, Greene, Lynch, Porter, Gowers, Young, Hayes (ML)

    That's an impressive 8 player list turnover. Into 6 players and a Cat B after the list size reduction.
    Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

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  3. #1607
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    Re: List Management for 2020/21

    Khamis was upgraded to cat A basically the same the night he was drafted. I don't think you can downgrade any rookies back to cat B.
    I should leave it alone but you're not right

  4. #1608
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    Re: List Management for 2020/21

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog Joe View Post
    While that is true, the past 4 years have been an under-achievement.
    Not sure how many rebuilding sides make two out of four finals series.
    Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.

  5. #1609
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    Re: List Management for 2020/21

    Quote Originally Posted by soupaman View Post
    Khamis was upgraded to cat A basically the same the night he was drafted. I don't think you can downgrade any rookies back to cat B.
    I don't think anyone has been able to explain this. It was a truly mystifying event.

  6. #1610
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    Re: List Management for 2020/21

    Quote Originally Posted by GVGjr View Post
    Our list is fine and it's certainly not the problem that many people think
    If it's no good then why haven't we made more changes with the playing list?

    I think we need to stop inventing excuses to explain poor results and start performing to our abilities and we will achieve better results

    We have enough quality players
    Historically you have been a strong advocate for the club not cutting the list deep enough.

    What excuses do you see Beveridge inventing for our poor results?

    I also use to think our list was better than it was.

    I truly went into 2017 and 2018 thinking we'd be a top four team. I even held out hope we'd be a top six team in 2020 but if anything we went backwards compared to 2019.

    If its not the list - what needs to change for us to be top four?
    More of an In Bruges guy?

  7. #1611
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    Re: List Management for 2020/21

    Quote Originally Posted by azabob View Post
    Historically you have been a strong advocate for the club not cutting the list deep enough.

    What excuses do you see Beveridge inventing for our poor results?

    I also use to think our list was better than it was.

    I truly went into 2017 and 2018 thinking we'd be a top four team. I even held out hope we'd be a top six team in 2020 but if anything we went backwards compared to 2019.

    If its not the list - what needs to change for us to be top four?
    I see the reasons being offered here like the hubs, no VFL and a young an inexperienced list and it never quite washes with me because it's roughly the same challenges for all teams over a cycle of a few years

    I've highlighted the area's that Bevo and the coaches need to rethink throughout the season but I suspect we are resolute with our approach and we will have to wait this one out.
    I just don't believe the quality of the list is stopping us from progressing deeper in finals but it can always get better.
    2021 shapes as a big year for us, a real yardstick season.
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

  8. #1612
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    Re: List Management for 2020/21

    What’s the rules about rookie upgrades now? Roarke has been on the rookie list for 3 years (well 6), which I thought was the cut off before you had to promote or delist. Do we need to make that call on Roarke or have things changed?

  9. #1613
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    Re: List Management for 2020/21

    Quote Originally Posted by GVGjr View Post
    Would there be any interest in Mason Wood? Just read and article that he is injury free and training hard hoping to get a spot on a senior list
    He is about 15% more frustrating than Schache, without Schache's height and huge tank.

    I'd consider a KPD DFA though if there was anyone decent. I'm surprised it never 'clicked' for Sam Durdin - first rounder KPD that just never put it all together. Part of North's 11-player cull.
    Western Bulldogs: 2016 Premiers

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  11. #1614
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    Re: List Management for 2020/21

    Quote Originally Posted by Mofra View Post
    He is about 15% more frustrating than Schache, without Schache's height and huge tank.

    I'd consider a KPD DFA though if there was anyone decent. I'm surprised it never 'clicked' for Sam Durdin - first rounder KPD that just never put it all together. Part of North's 11-player cull.
    I saw Durdin out bodied by Fergus Greene a couple of season back in a marking contest so you're right he just never reached his potential
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

  12. #1615
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    Re: List Management for 2020/21

    Quote Originally Posted by soupaman View Post
    Khamis was upgraded to cat A basically the same the night he was drafted. I don't think you can downgrade any rookies back to cat B.
    An assumption on my part. We’ve had a max list and Buku. The club hasn’t been clear how we’ve done it. My best guess is he’s a Cat B.
    Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

  13. #1616
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    Re: List Management for 2020/21

    Quote Originally Posted by The Underdog View Post
    What’s the rules about rookie upgrades now? Roarke has been on the rookie list for 3 years (well 6), which I thought was the cut off before you had to promote or delist. Do we need to make that call on Roarke or have things changed?
    Good pick up, I thought he was on two. I know some clubs are asking for dispensation to work around rookie list spots, Brisbane got it last year to keep Matt Eagles an extra year on their RL. I guess there's an argument we could make to the AFEL. If we can't get it, then we promote him at the expense of Hayes or Cavarra (only uncontracted main list players) and maybe look at rookie listing them at our picks. Or, we cut Roarke and look at picking him with our first pick in the RD. I'd hope there's a gentlemens agreement between the clubs to allow all clubs to pick back their own players, owing to circumstances.
    Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

  14. #1617
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    Re: List Management for 2020/21

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldogtragic View Post
    An assumption on my part. We’ve had a max list and Buku. The club hasn’t been clear how we’ve done it. My best guess is he’s a Cat B.
    I was thinking the same thing. We apparently upgraded him to category A after he was drafted for no good reason, yet as you say this year we had 1 more than the max list. This lead me to the same conclusion - somehow Khamis is a cat B rookie.

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  16. #1618
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    Re: List Management for 2020/21

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldogtragic View Post
    Good pick up, I thought he was on two. I know some clubs are asking for dispensation to work around rookie list spots, Brisbane got it last year to keep Matt Eagles an extra year on their RL. I guess there's an argument we could make to the AFEL. If we can't get it, then we promote him at the expense of Hayes or Cavarra (only uncontracted main list players) and maybe look at rookie listing them at our picks. Or, we cut Roarke and look at picking him with our first pick in the RD. I'd hope there's a gentlemens agreement between the clubs to allow all clubs to pick back their own players, owing to circumstances.
    I think the risk of losing Roarke in the rookie draft is one most of us are willing to take.

  17. #1619
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    Re: List Management for 2020/21

    Quote Originally Posted by Axe Man View Post
    I think the risk of losing Roarke in the rookie draft is one most of us are willing to take.
    Most, except Bevo...
    Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

  18. #1620
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    Re: List Management for 2020/21

    Since the third man up rule was banned from the start of 2017, Bevo has paid no attention to the value of rucks and that has limited our success.

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