List Management for 2020/21

[Hotdog60]

Yeah I do. 2020 was the perfect year to play him for one or two games and we didn't.

I can't see him getting a game in 2021.

I hope he can work on being more mobile and I wouldn't have minded us rotating players through the list in 2020 as the threat of a shorten list it would make decisions easier now if players on the fringe got bigger blocks to see if they are worth persisting with.
Although the game day thread wouldn't be pleasant.

[Rocco Jones]

Delist
Porter
Suckling
Hayes
Trengove

That would mean 4 picks about JUH. If JUH is bid at 3, by my maths our two picks at around 48 and 54. If we delist anyone else, we wouldn't have a pick until the end of the draft.

[Axe Man]

I have to disagree with the calls to delist and payout Lloyd. I think it sends a terrible message to current and prospective players that we are willing to cut players under contract. I get that players have all the power and will demand trades under contract aka Dunkley, but I think we want to be seen as an employer of choice.

The only way I would consider this course of action is where the player has failed to meet required standards relating to training, fitness, behaviour, etc.

[Rocco Jones]

I have to disagree with the calls to delist and payout Lloyd. I think it sends a terrible message to current and prospective players that we are willing to cut players under contract. I get that players have all the power and will demand trades under contract aka Dunkley, but I think we want to be seen as an employer of choice.

The only way I would consider this course of action is where the player has failed to meet required standards relating to training, fitness, behaviour, etc.

100%

[soupman]

I have to disagree with the calls to delist and payout Lloyd. I think it sends a terrible message to current and prospective players that we are willing to cut players under contract. I get that players have all the power and will demand trades under contract aka Dunkley, but I think we want to be seen as an employer of choice.

The only way I would consider this course of action is where the player has failed to meet required standards relating to training, fitness, behaviour, etc.

Fair.

I am someone who would be happy to push Lloyd out, so to play devils advocate:

We love to give "good characters" endless chances. We gave Lynch and Greene multiple year contracts off very little, Easton Wood just signed a two year contract despite having played maybe 10 actual good games in the last 2-3 seasons. Roarke Smith has been on our list for about 6 years despite never really looking like a senior player. Trengove came to the club on a 3 year deal and it seemed like we didn't even really want him. Callum Porter, who is an undersized inside midfielder who has never looked like being what we need has been on the list for 3 years for about 2 games and seeing as we haven't cut him yet it would seem we are trying to keep him.

I get the argument that cutting Lloyd makes the playing group feel a bit more vulnerable, but maybe that's the kick up the arse an underperforming and at times unwilling playing group needs? Bailey Dale as an example might pull his finger out if he thinks every year he has to earn his contract. Certainly our loyalty to our players hasn't helped us attract anyone decent, maybe it is a reason why we seem to grab fringe guys like Hannan, Lloyd, Crozier as they can see the security someone who is a good bloke and a AFLish talent can get with us, but is that making us better?

[Axe Man]

Fair.

I am someone who would be happy to push Lloyd out, so to play devils advocate:

We love to give "good characters" endless chances. We gave Lynch and Greene multiple year contracts off very little, Easton Wood just signed a two year contract despite having played maybe 10 actual good games in the last 2-3 seasons. Roarke Smith has been on our list for about 6 years despite never really looking like a senior player. Trengove came to the club on a 3 year deal and it seemed like we didn't even really want him. Callum Porter, who is an undersized inside midfielder who has never looked like being what we need has been on the list for 3 years for about 2 games and seeing as we haven't cut him yet it would seem we are trying to keep him.

I get the argument that cutting Lloyd makes the playing group feel a bit more vulnerable, but maybe that's the kick up the arse an underperforming and at times unwilling playing group needs? Bailey Dale as an example might pull his finger out if he thinks every year he has to earn his contract. Certainly our loyalty to our players hasn't helped us attract anyone decent, maybe it is a reason why we seem to grab fringe guys like Hannan, Lloyd, Crozier as they can see the security someone who is a good bloke and a AFLish talent can get with us, but is that making us better?

That is a lucid, intelligent, well thought-out objection. Overruled.

I don't disagree with our tendency to hang on to players who are a low percentage chance of becoming regular best 22 members too long. But that issue should be addressed before handing out the contracts. Once signed I would prefer we honour them.

Also I don't share the view that Lloyd was as bad as some are making out. Forward lines this season were tough gigs across the league. Cavarra hasn't shown a fraction of what Lloyd has yet somehow he's a preferred option?

[bulldogtragic]

Whilst I was, and still am, against it. We paid out Trav Cloke (where he announced his retirement in the side of a road) to keep Honeychurch a few years back. So the club has the capacity and recent history to pay out players before the last list lodgement. I'm not advocating it, I'm just saying we've done it under Bevo & Grant.

[soupman]

Cavarra hasn't shown a fraction of what Lloyd has yet somehow he's a preferred option?

Lloyd is certainly a better proven player, but we have an abundance of mid sized forwards who primarily earn their shots through their ability to take a mark on the move and from handball receives. They are both Lloyds main two avenues to goal but also Bailey Dales, Mitch Hannans and Mitch Wallis is kind of a more stationary version of those guys as well.

Cavarra may very well fall in the same category, but he was recruited to the club with the idea that he could be a pacy crumbing forward who applied defensive pressure. I'm not sure his form has demonstrated he is that guy, but Lloyd best case scenario is more of what we have while Cavarra is something we need.

I'm pretty meh on both fwiw and would be happy to cut both (I'm happy to keep Lloyd as he is contracted, but i don't think he makes us better and would rather that list spot went to someone who could).

[Ozza]

Lloyd won our goal kicking in 2019, and although he may not make the first 22 picked right now, he is certainly a reasonable replacement should Wallis/Dale/Hannan become injured. You'd only be 'paying out' the last year of a contract for a player who is no chance to play or you are down to absolute final list spots. Lloyd isn't close to bottom few on the list. And if I am recalling correctly, Lloyd hasn't really been prone to injury - his injury this year was an impact injury from a tackle - he doesn't get soft tissue injuries, whereas Cavarra has/does.

[The Doctor]

Scharenberg Anyone?

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl...d011fcad7e4a23

Matthew Scharenberg

He has dealt with a horror run of injury since being taken with Pick 6 in the 201 draft, but his potential is clear. To add to that, the defender is still only 25. He was undersized for the centre half-back role but still seemed to thrive on the challenge of taking on tall forwards. His most recent knee reconstruction came at the end of 2018 after a promising season for the Pies. The Western Bulldogs are in need of another genuine defender who can help tackle the talls and Scharenberg would be a brilliant selection given his age and desire to play on.

[Topdog]

Lloyd is certainly a better proven player, but we have an abundance of mid sized forwards who primarily earn their shots through their ability to take a mark on the move and from handball receives. They are both Lloyds main two avenues to goal but also Bailey Dales, Mitch Hannans and Mitch Wallis is kind of a more stationary version of those guys as well.

Cavarra may very well fall in the same category, but he was recruited to the club with the idea that he could be a pacy crumbing forward who applied defensive pressure. I'm not sure his form has demonstrated he is that guy, but Lloyd best case scenario is more of what we have while Cavarra is something we need.

I'm pretty meh on both fwiw and would be happy to cut both (I'm happy to keep Lloyd as he is contracted, but i don't think he makes us better and would rather that list spot went to someone who could).

Agree that we have an abundance of similar types with none of them being elite so certainly not against dropping one. Giving Lloyd multiple years was a mistake but I'd be disappointed if we cut him whilst under contract.

Did we offer him up in trade week?

[bornadog]

Scharenberg Anyone?

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl...d011fcad7e4a23

Matthew Scharenberg

He has dealt with a horror run of injury since being taken with Pick 6 in the 201 draft, but his potential is clear. To add to that, the defender is still only 25. He was undersized for the centre half-back role but still seemed to thrive on the challenge of taking on tall forwards. His most recent knee reconstruction came at the end of 2018 after a promising season for the Pies. The Western Bulldogs are in need of another genuine defender who can help tackle the talls and Scharenberg would be a brilliant selection given his age and desire to play on.

I was one that wanted him in during his draft year. Wasn't he more of a midfielder in the past?

[Axe Man]

I was one that wanted him in during his draft year. Wasn't he more of a midfielder in the past?

Thank goodness we didn't listen to you!

He's always played back, but I think it was thought he could have become a mid and spent some time there at under 18 level.

Do we want another undersized KPD? I can imagine us tearing our hair out after been beaten in the air by the 200cm KPFs once again next year. However, if his body is sound could he be an upgrade on Cordy?

[soupman]

Do not want Scharenberg. We have enough mediocre kind of talls already in Cordy, Gardner and Wood. I want someone who can lock down the big guys freeing up Keath or can be a good aerial option (maybe Young).

[The Doctor]

Do not want Scharenberg. We have enough mediocre kind of talls already in Cordy, Gardner and Wood. I want someone who can lock down the big guys freeing up Keath or can be a good aerial option (maybe Young).

Like Carlisle?