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19-09-2020, 05:35 PM
#331
Re: List Management for 2020/21
Originally Posted by
GVGjr
I don't think it's linked like that
Bevo flagged that he had no intention of dropping Bruce and even lowered the bar for him saying (which in fairness he had to) that given the conditions Bruce was bringing the ball to the ground. Not a terrific skill in my opinion. Well conditions were pretty good at Adelaide and he grabbed 4 marks and 11 possessions in a game we dominated in the first half
We can use the above logic for every player selected by the MC and have zero discussion around team selection or the form of the players if you like but playing out of form players week after week should be questioned on a discussion forum
Not sure that's fair Gary. I don't have an issue with debating whether or not Bruce should be in or out. On a couple of occasions myself I've said Bruce surely can't continue to be selected.
All I'm trying to say here is that given how poor Bruce has been, Schache must be going even worse, to not even get a look in by the match committee.
I do think Schache has attributes that are good, and I want him to make it, and clearly the club do too, otherwise they wouldn't have extended him.
I would love to know just why it is he has seemingly gone to the back of the queue for a game but I suspect the club isn't about to reveal that.
The only thing I can think of is that the things that Bruce is still doing, eg pressure, intensity, hitting packs, are things the MC highly value and that they must not be seeing that from Schache in training, or scratch matches, since he was dropped after his dismal Carlton performance.
Last edited by GVGjr; 19-09-2020 at 06:23 PM.
Reason: fixed quote
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19-09-2020, 07:06 PM
#332
Re: List Management for 2020/21
Originally Posted by
Yankee Hotel Foxtrot
Not sure that's fair Gary. I don't have an issue with debating whether or not Bruce should be in or out. On a couple of occasions myself I've said Bruce surely can't continue to be selected.
All I'm trying to say here is that given how poor Bruce has been, Schache must be going even worse, to not even get a look in by the match committee.
I do think Schache has attributes that are good, and I want him to make it, and clearly the club do too, otherwise they wouldn't have extended him.
I would love to know just why it is he has seemingly gone to the back of the queue for a game but I suspect the club isn't about to reveal that.
The only thing I can think of is that the things that Bruce is still doing, eg pressure, intensity, hitting packs, are things the MC highly value and that they must not be seeing that from Schache in training, or scratch matches, since he was dropped after his dismal Carlton performance.
Apologies, it wasn't meant to offend
I understand what you are saying but we know that Bruce isn't quite delivering at the moment and he's had a long run during the season to start to deliver and yet when we raise the likes of Lewis Young or in this instance Schache as other options we are prepared to speculate, quite harshly in my opinion, on why they aren't being played.
We can certainly work on the notion that the MC gets it right most of the time and really shouldn't be challenged too much but what I do know and believe is that when the selections last year started making more sense last year our performance improved.
If you check my posts, I've certainly haven't participated in the fat shaming that Bruce (and Bont) have received and I've stuck to the facts that his form doesn't warrant automatic selection but lets face it that is what he has got.
I've also not been that critical of Gowers and Gardner again looking more on their form
If people are seeing value in what Bruce is bringing us then great, I'm just struggling to we what that is.
Lets hope he has a good game against Fremantle
Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"
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19-09-2020, 07:20 PM
#333
Re: List Management for 2020/21
Bruce never played in finals at the Saints. Let's get him his first. I see value.
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20-09-2020, 07:26 AM
#334
Re: List Management for 2020/21
Originally Posted by
Grantysghost
Bruce never played in finals at the Saints. Let's get him his first. I see value.
When we beat Freo it sets up a final against the saints. So that’s going to give Bruce motivation to play in his first two finals.
BB.
Looking forward - Naughton, Darcy and JUH. It will be the envy of everyone.
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20-09-2020, 08:02 AM
#335
Re: List Management for 2020/21
With North culling so hard and the likelihood of Brown & Polec moving on I wonder if they would have any interest in any of our fringe players? Schache for instance? If we had any interest in Polec maybe some deal could be worked out there.
Listening to Brahm's 3rd Racket
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20-09-2020, 10:37 AM
#336
Re: List Management for 2020/21
Originally Posted by
The Doctor
With North culling so hard and the likelihood of Brown & Polec moving on I wonder if they would have any interest in any of our fringe players? Schache for instance? If we had any interest in Polec maybe some deal could be worked out there.
There is a fair chance a few clubs ask about Schache and Lewis Young
Essendon would have to be interested if they were to lose Daniher and who knows but maybe he has some appeal to Geelong
Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"
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20-09-2020, 12:15 PM
#337
Re: List Management for 2020/21
Originally Posted by
GVGjr
There is a fair chance a few clubs ask about Schache and Lewis Young
Essendon would have to be interested if they were to lose Daniher and who knows but maybe he has some appeal to Geelong
Difficult to believe that this is even a possibility.
Schache and Young have so much potential but the time has come where we must all accept the reality that the club can’t develop them. Good luck to them in their new clubs.
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20-09-2020, 12:17 PM
#338
Re: List Management for 2020/21
Originally Posted by
Danjul
Difficult to believe that this is even a possibility.
Schache and Young have so much potential but the time has come where we must all accept the reality that the club can’t develop them. Good luck to them in their new clubs.
21 and 23 years old and both tall. I wouldn't be letting them go yet
FFC: Established 1883
Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.
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20-09-2020, 12:21 PM
#339
Re: List Management for 2020/21
Originally Posted by
bornadog
21 and 23 years old and both tall. I wouldn't be letting them go yet
Neither would I, but if they aren't being played (3 senior games between them this year) whats the incentive to keep them or for them to stay?
We are fortunate that they've both got contracts for 2021 (Schache 2022)
Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"
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20-09-2020, 12:32 PM
#340
Re: List Management for 2020/21
Originally Posted by
GVGjr
Neither would I, but if they aren't being played (3 senior games between them this year) whats the incentive to keep them or for them to stay?
We are fortunate that they've both got contracts for 2021 (Schache 2022)
You always need backup players.
FFC: Established 1883
Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.
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20-09-2020, 01:19 PM
#341
Re: List Management for 2020/21
Originally Posted by
bornadog
21 and 23 years old and both tall. I wouldn't be letting them go yet
Sure, but at what point do we take aiming to be genuine contender seriously enough to jettison 'projects' in favour of quality?
Or put another way, how many years of prime Bont, Jacko & Co. are we content to piss away while we conduct experiments on traditionally slow to develop talls?
On top of English and Gardner I mean.
We need quality to remedy whatever holes our brains trust feel exist to the extent they're holding us back advancing our cause.
I'm annoyed too that we haven't developed Young & Schache into regulars, but if we can tangibly improve our best 22 circa smart dealing then I'm thanking them for their services.
BORDERLINE FLYING
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20-09-2020, 01:39 PM
#342
Re: List Management for 2020/21
Originally Posted by
Rocket Science
Sure, but at what point do we take aiming to be genuine contender seriously enough to jettison 'projects' in favour of quality?
Or put another way, how many years of prime Bont, Jacko & Co. are we content to piss away while we conduct experiments on traditionally slow to develop talls?
On top of English and Gardner I mean.
We need quality to remedy whatever holes our brains trust feel exist to the extent they're holding us back advancing our cause.
I'm annoyed too that we haven't developed Young & Schache into regulars, but if we can tangibly improve our best 22 circa smart dealing then I'm thanking them for their services.
My problem with these two players is I have no idea what development means.
Take Lewis Young, for example. I saw his first game. Close to best on ground. Took more marks than anyone else in the team. It included contested pack marks at centre half back. He was a natural footballer, a talent we could build on .
After about 3 years of development we have nothing.
And Schache, look at his goals per game or % of games getting goals, and there is obvious talent we can build on. Except for the fact that in the modern game they are irrelevant attributes.
I didn’t expect it.
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20-09-2020, 02:01 PM
#343
Re: List Management for 2020/21
Originally Posted by
Danjul
My problem with these two players is I have no idea what development means.
Take Lewis Young, for example. I saw his first game. Close to best on ground. Took more marks than anyone else in the team. It included contested pack marks at centre half back. He was a natural footballer, a talent we could build on .
After about 3 years of development we have nothing.
And Schache, look at his goals per game or % of games getting goals, and there is obvious talent we can build on. Except for the fact that in the modern game they are irrelevant attributes.
I didn’t expect it.
I also saw Lewis Young’s 5th game where Jon Patton nearly made him cry. Sometimes guys start fast and get worked out.
In saying that, I’m a fan of both. I’ve been a proponent of Schache since he arrived and I think Young has huge upside. Unfortunately it seems both have issues in maintaining intensity and physical presence which are attributes that seem to be prized fairly highly by this regime. Would I have given them both more games this year? For sure. But I don’t know what conversations are being had internally either. The problem may be that this is something that isn’t necessarily coachable. It’s clearly the reason not many teams were interested in Schache when he was available for trade. I hope we keep both and give them opportunity but I can see where both would be looking elsewhere.
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20-09-2020, 02:04 PM
#344
Re: List Management for 2020/21
Originally Posted by
Danjul
My problem with these two players is I have no idea what development means.
Take Lewis Young, for example. I saw his first game. Close to best on ground. Took more marks than anyone else in the team. It included contested pack marks at centre half back. He was a natural footballer, a talent we could build on .
After about 3 years of development we have nothing.
And Schache, look at his goals per game or % of games getting goals, and there is obvious talent we can build on. Except for the fact that in the modern game they are irrelevant attributes.
I didn’t expect it.
No argument on Lewy Young. What has - or more importantly hasn't - happened with him since that splashy debut ranks right up there as one of the most confounding features of Bevo's tenure. Still reckon there's a Darcy Moore type somewhere in there waiting to break out but as it stands I feel like I've got more chance of being selected than he has.
Schache's prospect of same I'm less enthusiastic about, not least of all because whether he overcomes his struggles or not he still needs to displace one of Naughton, Bruce or eventually Ugle-Hagan. The arithmetic just doesn't work.
If he lands us a look at someone who's a walk-up best-22 however, I think it's time we blinked. Another year buried in our system isn't going to help anyone, least of all Josh.
BORDERLINE FLYING
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20-09-2020, 02:14 PM
#345
Re: List Management for 2020/21
Schaches flaws are there for all to see. I do like him as a player and in a game that flows he can be pretty damaging with his repeat long leads and foot skills, but his lack of aggression is a big issue. I don't think it should have kept him to just two games this year though, particularly given our forward half woes and Bruce's poor form.
Young is more mystifying. Played him when he wasn't ready at the start but gave him a taste for some encouraging signs, then we didn't really see him until late last year when he suddenly reappeared and displaced JT for the final. Fast forward to preseason and he looked in good condition, showed encouraging signs as a forward and we haven't seen him since. What gives?
Gardner has improved but he had to coming from his incredibly low base. Hope he makes it but I don't get that Young has again disappeared out of calculation, below a guy that is still very questionable at the level (Young isn't proven either, granted).