List Management for 2020/21

[GVGjr]

Not sure What WAH means, but I don't believe the club will do it

Weight, Age or Height which are often the reason used to reject any interests in players

I agree, we are very unlikely to consider Goldy. He's a quality player though and should have no worries completing 2 seasons at a high level

[bornadog]

Weight, Age or Height which are often the reason used to reject any interests in players

I agree, we are very unlikely to consider Goldy. He's a quality player though and should have no worries completing 2 seasons at a high level

Personally, I would actually take him on a 2 year which should include a playing coach role and help Tim. Not sure coaching is something he would like to do, but if he didn't cost much in way of picks - then why not.

[soupman]

Big yes to Goldstein.

Is he worth a 2021 first rounder? Kind of. I mean in the current trade market no one is paying that for a 32 year old ruckman, but that isn't to say he isn't worth it.

I really like the idea of English playing a kind of Westhoff role of being a tall that goes where he is needed and can do everything fairly well, and Goldstein is the best of the available number one rucks that could make this happen.

[Rance Fan]

I think we should look at these types.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.afl...eek-freak-/amp

[Happy Days]

Big yes to Goldstein.

Is he worth a 2021 first rounder? Kind of. I mean in the current trade market no one is paying that for a 32 year old ruckman, but that isn't to say he isn't worth it.

I really like the idea of English playing a kind of Westhoff role of being a tall that goes where he is needed and can do everything fairly well, and Goldstein is the best of the available number one rucks that could make this happen.

I didn’t realise he was 32 so maybe a first is too much, but also at the same time you could think of that first being spent on English as much as Goldstein. Plus if we get Goldy we would be entitled to think the pick will be closer to 18 than 1.

[The Pie Man]

We won’t do it but Goldstein makes so much sense.

Can only hope for a change of heart.

[soupman]

Ok big offseason coming. This is what I'd do. I'm really sorry about the length of this post, I may have gotten a bit carried away.

Gowers, Greene, Trengove, Lynch, Hayes, Porter, Suckling and Khamis are all off contract. I'd let them all go (Khamis is maybe the only one I'd consider and that's only if we genuinely think he could contribute next season). Dickson is gone already.

Someone said list sizes will be capped at 42 next year. Assuming that is true that takes us down to 36 on the list.

Also Sweet and Cavarra are only retained if we think they can contribute next year. If not I'd cut them.

I'd re-sign the remaining out of contract players I think at this stage.

I see our lineup being something like the following.
Defence:
Three talls is fine, as long as they are versatile. But I want to upgrade both Gardner and Cordy. They are both serviceable, but I am not convinced they allow Keath to shine and neither are anything more than ok negating defenders. Our negating small is one of Wood or Duryea, they can't both play unless one of those talls drop out. Daniel and Williams are your rebounding guys. Crozier the interceptor. Thats 7. So I just want to upgrade the talls. I did think our defence was pretty good the second half of the season and worked pretty well in theory, but think some of the personnel are suspect and we went overboard with the amount of defenders we picked.

Ruck. English by himself is not it. I much prefer the idea of him playing a Westhoff type role, where he is a supporting player wherever he needs to be, using his mix of attributes and aerial ability to help shore up our defence, provide an attacking option of help link up through the middle. I want a main ruck who is constructive with his hitouts, decent around the ground (doesn't have to be amazing) and at least breaks even in the air.

Mids stay largely the same, Bont, Macrae, Libba, Dunkley and Smith is a good main group. Hunter is good on the wing. Wouldn't mind some more pace through there but I'm gonna put that in the forward grouping.

Our forwardline is terrible. Too many types that don't create and aren't natural forwards. Josh Bruce bafflingly was afforded an entire season in which he provided zero output. I'd be aiming for a forward setup that has Naughton as its centre piece, a mobile second tall (JUH I guess), a good finishing reliable smart forward (Wallis) and then a typical pacy small forward who is a good crumber and has good goal sense in congestion. The remaining forwards need to be able to push up the ground and help link up and bring the ball in while also being goal threats. At least one probably also plays on a wing (I probably give this role to JJ, and would be very open to swapping he and Daniel around as we see fit throughout the season), and another should be able to push up the ground as another mid type (Lipinski currently but his spot is very up for grabs). Vandermeer is one, two spots remain.

So we are looking at something like:
Defence:
FB: Duryea/Wood (Lockdown), Anchor tall/Gardner, Third tall/versatile medium/Cordy/Wood/Crozier
HB: Daniel/JJ (Main rebounder), Keath, Williams (General defender/rebound)
+One on bench

Mids
Centre: Hunter (Main wingman), Bont, .../JJ (High forward)
Ruck: ??? (Main Ruck), Bontempelli, Macrae
+Smith and Dunkley on the bench

Forwards
HF: Vandermeer (High forward with attacking intent), JUH? (Mobile tall), ??? (forward mid type with goal sense)
FF: Wallis (Pure forward who finishes), Naughton (Main threat and target), ??? (Crumbing type)
+English (playing wherever we feel he is needed)

Players in our current squad that could fill those roles:
Lewis Young could take one of the key defensive posts, or the mobile forward post, but I assume he is gone so not counting him.
I don't rate Cordy that highly as that defender, but he could be an ok option as the mobile forward depending on JUH's readiness. Not ideal though.
Schache should be gunning for the mobile tall role, but is not good enough to claim it by default.
West could play the forward mid role.
McLean is irrelevant for next year so not considered.
Bruce is purely in the squad as a backup to Naughton.
Don't really see a role opening up for Butler unless we turn that spare wing into a defensive wing.
Weightman should be aiming to take over the Wallis role, not sure he fins the ball naturally enough to play as one of the high forwards and not sure he is a natural crumber like i want for the pocket, but should be considered.
Richards has been playing the Vandermeer role with limited results, otherwise maybe the wing role?
Lloyd doesn't get a game unless Wallis is out.
Cavarra maybe gets a game in the pocket role but not sure he is good enough.
Lipinski should be in the mid forward role but has been unimpressive when it matters so I'm happy to consider other options.
Dale is another for the Wallis role, don't really see him contributing meaningfully.
Roarke is kind of that winger role/Hunter depth, but i wouldn't be planning on him being a starter.
Garcia seems highly rated internally so could be a bolter for the Vandermeer type role.
Lachie Young is a bit like Butler, might be helped if we make that third tall role a more damaging player which could be him.
Sweet is a candidate for the main ruck role, but not a realistic one.
Jong could be the winger or the mid forward option, not sure he demands the spot though.

Looking at that I think we can identify players we would be happy to trade. Cordy, Schache, Lloyd, Bruce, Lipinski and Dale are all contracted players that don't demand spots and have queries on their ability to actually make us better. None have trade value, but list spots are so valuable so if someone else wants them they can have them. I'd even seriously consider paying Lloyd out, as i really don't see a use for him going forward.

So who do we target?

The ruck is the hardest spot to fill. Where do you find a ready to go main ruck that is decent around the ground and may be available. North have Goldstein, he is clearly the biggest fish on the table. I love Ladhams from Port and think he'd be a great get, but don't see how. Nankervis has been brought up here before and is a good shout (and also out of contract), he isn't a world beater but is physical and reliable, unfortunately Soldo's knee injury makes him harder to pry from the Tigers. I do not rate Preuss at all so not him please. A left field option could be Ben McEvoy, Hawthorn aren't too attached to their experienced guys and McEvoy could be a cheap and effective option. After that there isn't much, plan B could be to try to find a forward ruck type that supports English and can help elsewhere. Possible targets for that are Darcy Fort (I actually think he is terrible), Callum Sinclair and Nathan Vardy, not great. So a limited pool with not many options unless we somehow pry an established starting ruck from a club.

The key defender posts are next on the list. There are a few candidates here. The first I would be looking at is Brennan Cox from Freo. Long limbed, strong mark and good in that anchor defensive position, and should be available relatively cheaply. I think he is a better version of Gardner. Another less established option is Jackson Payne. Big boy who had some encouraging performances this season for Brisbane, and is up against it for a spot with their depth. Jake Carlisle seems like a bit of a numpty, but he could also offer a cost effective option as an anchor defender and gives us marking power. Aliir Aliir is a weird player but I think he is decent, offers us size and versatility and could be interested in a move. Possible alternative could be Jarrod Brander, doesn't seem to be getting a game at West Coast, is a key forward i think but could maybe swing back.

Now to the many forwardish positions that need filling.

Would love us to have a real dip for Josh Daicos for the mid/forward role. Is creative, has goal sense and is basically a really good version of Lipinski. Not sure what he would cost though. Brandan Parfitt is another that I really like that offers good tackling pressure, and can swap between the two roles. Xavier O'Halloran is another that fits the bill here, but is largely unproven at AFL level. Is already linked to us by the media. All those guys are out of contract which is encouraging, I'd be really trying to get one of them across (particularly the first two).

Quinton Narkle could be a candidate for the mid/forward or wing/forward role. Smooth moving, pacy and seems to have goal sense, and hasn't signed a contract yet. Wouldn't necessarily be a guaranteed starter, but I think he would be worth giving a shot at the role.

Other wing forward types include Isaac Smith, who is out of contract and clearly on our radar based on past dealings. I would also like us to look at Brett Bewley from Freo. He isn't super pacy but links up well, is a nice long kick and I think he would offer a good composed link into our forwardline, also ooc. Oleg Markov from Richmond seems to be more of a half back but seems like a very direct player who has pace. Could Fiorini be worth looking at from Gold Coast? He strikes m as a Hunter type, and has struggled for game there this year, but has been highly rated in the past.

As for the crumbing role it would seem the out of contract Jack Lonie is the front runner. I haven't been huge on him in the past but do think he has some attributes that improve us, but I'm not sure if he is the long term solution, more of a stop gap. Another to consider could be Lachie Schultz from Freo. He isn't as exciting as I'd like but i think he is an effective crumbing forward and is also out of contract. Others who have had encouraging performances at AFL level this year and are out of contract include Ben Ronke, Toby Bedford, Brad Close, Jake Aarts and Boyd Woodcock, as well as ex employee Jamaine Jones.

I know that's a lot of names, but we have a lot of list spots to fill in my proposal. I'd be particularly keen on us really chasing Daicos.

If we could get a haul of something like Cox, Payne, McEvoy, Parfitt, Bewley, Lonie I think we are a much better side. Even if they are not better players than the ones they replace, i think the attributes they offer to our side make us better. There is a good chance three to four of those guys come effectively for free, and Parfitt would be the only one that would really cost something. We probably end up with approx 4 draft picks at the end of this, which we should be juggling around to get max points value for. Ideally we come out of the draft with no draft points deficit, and JUH, Raak and two very late picks on our list. I'd be very open to the late picks being guys that performed in WA or one of the other leagues that operated this year, or even use it to give a delisted guy another chance.

If you've made it this far I'm very impressed, I hope this promotes some discussion about who is available and what we can do, at the very least it's enabled me to have a very long winded think about it all out loud. Also there are heaps more options, I just got exhausted listing the out of contract ones so there are heaps more that are under contract.

[FrediKanoute]

Sterling effort Soupaman. I agree with most. I think we need more pace, so I would favour pacey mid-forwards. We were cut to pieces over the course of they year because our mids are largely one paced and Wallis as our small forward has no pace.

[AshMac]

Big yes to Goldstein.

Is he worth a 2021 first rounder? Kind of. I mean in the current trade market no one is paying that for a 32 year old ruckman, but that isn't to say he isn't worth it.

Would love Goldy, but a 2021 first round pick for a 32 year old in a team openly telling players to look elsewhere and dying to offload age and salary space so they can begin their very public rebuild?

If Sam power has any negotiation prowess - We take his salary off them for the next 2 years and give them a packet of twisties! Chicken flavour. Snack size.

[Happy Days]

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/10/...spite-reports/

So maybe Goldstein is out. That was a fun 12 hours or so.

[comrade]

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/10/...spite-reports/

So maybe Goldstein is out. That was a fun 12 hours or so.

North probably realise it's insanity to just rely on a young, undersized ruckman without any support or guidance from a genuine, experienced ruckman on the list.

Oh...

[AshMac]

North probably realise it's insanity to just rely on a young, undersized ruckman without any support or guidance from a genuine, experienced ruckman on the list.

Oh...

That’s super obvious though to any team though righ.... oh wait....

[Dry Rot]

Interesting analysis of us here

https://www.theroar.com.au/2020/10/0...ldogs-in-2020/

Thoughts?

[jeemak]

Thanks DR.

I'm on record as wanting Naughton back in defence, it immediately solves a massive issue for us and enables us to try other things forward of the centre.

[DOG GOD]

Interesting analysis of us here

https://www.theroar.com.au/2020/10/0...ldogs-in-2020/

Thoughts?

Pretty much spot on. It’s obvious we need a top tier ruckman, and goldy is the ideal choice. Another key defender is a given as well. I’ve been an advocate of Naughton to defence even if we acquired a key defender because I honestly don’t rate cordy or Gardner. I still believe a Bruest/Gunston/miochek is required to add that goal kicking class, plus a speedy crumbing fwd.

Our fwd line needs more pace so wouldn’t mind seeing JJ moved to a HFF, as Williams has stamped that defensive position.