How do we get our bark back?

[G-Mo77]

So Gardner is out of contract? Do we all expect him to be kept on ? I do.

Bring back Fletcher Roberts!

[SonofScray]

2 goals and a fight. Should be our mantra.

[Mofra]

I involuntarily spat out my coffee when I read that.

Has this been the only time in the history of the world where someone said we need a bit more of Tim Callan?

I meant that we need his type. Someone who is willing to do whatever it takes to compete, someone ruthless.

When Wallis was sent to Hodge on egame early in his career to nullify his influence and to learn from him, that was the word he used to describe Hodge. Not champion, skilled, or smart. Ruthless.
I really do think we need one more real hard-arse in the side.

[Mofra]

So Gardner is out of contract? Do we all expect him to be kept on ? I do.

I do too.

I feel for Gardner - a lot of fans seem to be just waiting for him to fail.
Once upon a time a guy who was thrown on the scrapheap, got a chance with a toenail in the door, and managed to play a couple of games would have been celebrated. He certainly hasn't been too bad in his last two games. TBH I think he deserves a spot on our list more than a number of players. I can think of half a dozen I'd lose easily before Gardner.
Yes I'd love another gun KPD to come in, but the world just doesn't work that way.

[Ozza]

I don't really buy the whole 'we don't have the cattle' theory.

Every list has strengths and weaknesses. Every side could do with another key position player, a speedy wingman, etc etc etc.

Last year, we wasted the first half of the year and then rattled home looking like we could beat anybody. And effectively did beat everyone significant, as we beat 3 of the 4 prelim finalist, and were within 2 goals of Collingwood. Add to that, that we were by far the youngest team to be able to match it with the top sides, and we should have had very high expectations this year.

[The Pie Man]

I do too.

I feel for Gardner - a lot of fans seem to be just waiting for him to fail.
Once upon a time a guy who was thrown on the scrapheap, got a chance with a toenail in the door, and managed to play a couple of games would have been celebrated. He certainly hasn't been too bad in his last two games. TBH I think he deserves a spot on our list more than a number of players. I can think of half a dozen I'd lose easily before Gardner.
Yes I'd love another gun KPD to come in, but the world just doesn't work that way.

There seems to be a hard stance almost automatically taken on guys taken from the VFL / delisted from other clubs.... like we don't trust it.

I recall plenty on here not happy we drafted Dickson at the time.

Gardner's been quite ok for nearly a month - suspect he's starting to feel more 'comfortable' at senior level given the sustained run he's had, which can hopefully translate to a solid senior defender.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

There seems to be a hard stance almost automatically taken on guys taken from the VFL / delisted from other clubs.... like we don't trust it.

I recall plenty on here not happy we drafted Dickson at the time.

Gardner's been quite ok for nearly a month - suspect he's starting to feel more 'comfortable' at senior level given the sustained run he's had, which can hopefully translate to a solid senior defender.

Yeah I've been happy enough with Gardner the last three weeks. He really looks like a player who once he finds his feet at AFL level, he'll be a 1%er sort of guy. Getting to the right spots and ensuring a spoil. Which is all we can ask for. I hate it when he has the ball in his hands but if he can nullify most contests we can all probably live with the occasional disposal error. He just needs to know his limitations. He's solid depth for a KPD.

[mjp]

I think the media massively overrated our list (especially midfield). It’s funny, a saints friend of mine highly rates our midfield and can’t understand why we aren’t top 3-4 with our midfield core group. I simply reply with “because our mids are overrated and that’s why we drop games against the likes of a North, Carlton and GC”.

This should probably be a thread but of our mids who would you say is over-rated / properly-rated / under-rated?

Bont. (From your comments OVER)
Macrae (again, you say over)
Smith?
Liber
Dunks
Toby
Hunter
Lipinski
Hayes
English

As an aside, Lachie Neale has had 15 bounces for the year (run and carry) which is less than half as many as Lachie Hunter...I think we all like Neale as a player but I'm not sure R+C is a stand-out attribute of his game.

[AshMac]

Reading this has been very cathartic - thank you! I too am furious about last Friday. Granted the importance of footy going well is amplified during lock down with more time to reflect - but that one particularly sucked.

I'm in the camp of Friday just not being good enough - the tiredness in the last quarter is totally understandable but we let them back into the game and pivoted our style from qtr time. We are better than that.

Re. getting our bark back - its a mix of things.

- no more passengers - players are out of form they're dropped - sends the wrong message and builds a culture of complacency
- we need to add pressure and intensity to our forward line - Hugh pressure small forward would be nice, but across the board. Everyone but naughton needs to lift IMO
- I'd like another silky outside elite runner elite kick for the middle
- we need a fine jar - $20 or every tackle that a player gets arms free and hands away $50 every time they break away completely and keep running
- assistance coach refresh - love the blame idea
- Lastly we need to sort the ruck out. the clearance stats don't tell an accurate story when our clearances are rushed lolly pop kicks and oppositions are free running clearances and clean entry into F50

who s the ex-player that bursts into the rooms and gives the "line in the sand" speech?

[bornadog]

pressure small forward would be nice, but across the board. Everyone but naughton needs to lift IMO

Wallis?

[Mofra]

Wallis?

I'm not even going to pretend to be impartial. I am very very happy with Vandermeer's progress this year. He doesn't quite have Dickson/Lloyd's smarts but makes up for it with pace and aggression.

[DOG GOD]

This should probably be a thread but of our mids who would you say is over-rated / properly-rated / under-rated?

Bont. (From your comments OVER)
Macrae (again, you say over)
Smith?
Liber
Dunks
Toby
Hunter
Lipinski
Hayes
English

As an aside, Lachie Neale has had 15 bounces for the year (run and carry) which is less than half as many as Lachie Hunter...I think we all like Neale as a player but I'm not sure R+C is a stand-out attribute of his game.

Hi MJP,
As a group I think the media overate our midfield core group. And I’ll probably get burnt in saying this, but yes I do think the majority of our midfield is overrated as a whole.

Do I personally think Bonti is overrated? Yes I do...just. For mine he goes missing in too many occasions, gets caught with the ball all too often, is a shocking kick for goal. But he can turn a game in a quarter. His field kicking is sublime when on song. Is he a bad player? No way, but I still see lots of improvement in his game, and the way commentary talk about him, then yes, I think he is overrated for what he delivers on a weekly basis.

Macrae is slow, doesn’t run both ways well, has avge foot skills more often than not and doesn’t give scoreboard pressure for a highly rated mid. Yes, he is consistent in the amount of ball he gets, but like I said, he’s more in the mould of Mitchell/Merrett who I also think is slightly overrated for what they actually do with the ball.

I also put hunter in this category.

Smith is going to be a beauty. For what he has done in his first 2 years he is certainly not overrated. He will be a star.

Toby, lipinski and Hayes would not be starting 22 in any team imo.

At the moment, English has proven he is not a first ruck. Time will tell where he ends up.

Dunkley and libba I personally think are not overrated. Both play to their abilities.

My point is that we have a mid group that I personally think the media overate. I’m not talking about all individual players, but as a core group, then yes.

But what do I know

I ready myself for the roasting Lol

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Hi MJP,
As a group I think the media overate our midfield core group. And I’ll probably get burnt in saying this, but yes I do think the majority of our midfield is overrated as a whole.

Do I personally think Bonti is overrated? Yes I do...just. For mine he goes missing in too many occasions, gets caught with the ball all too often, is a shocking kick for goal. But he can turn a game in a quarter. His field kicking is sublime when on song. Is he a bad player? No way, but I still see lots of improvement in his game, and the way commentary talk about him, then yes, I think he is overrated for what he delivers on a weekly basis.

Macrae is slow, doesn’t run both ways well, has avge foot skills more often than not and doesn’t give scoreboard pressure for a highly rated mid. Yes, he is consistent in the amount of ball he gets, but like I said, he’s more in the mould of Mitchell/Merrett who I also think is slightly overrated for what they actually do with the ball.

I also put hunter in this category.

Smith is going to be a beauty. For what he has done in his first 2 years he is certainly not overrated. He will be a star.

Toby, lipinski and Hayes would not be starting 22 in any team imo.

At the moment, English has proven he is not a first ruck. Time will tell where he ends up.

Dunkley and libba I personally think are not overrated. Both play to their abilities.

My point is that we have a mid group that I personally think the media overate. I’m not talking about all individual players, but as a core group, then yes.

But what do I know

I ready myself for the roasting Lol

I like your summary on our midfield which sadly lacks pace in the main and foot skills. Too many hand passes also limits opportunities for our forward line players. A case in point is Schache who leads well and is our best kick for goal but is limited because of poor delivery. Smith is an exception with good pace and skills. Our midfield has the capacity to get big disposals but our finishing leaves a lot to be desired resulting in poor returns on the scoreboard.

[soupman]

I think our midfield is overrated.

Individually? No. I think basically none of them are overrated as individual players, they have all proven they can perform to the level generally expected of them, but as a group? Certainly.

Our midfield is the ultimate "not greater than the sum of all parts". You put guys of the quality of Bont, Macrae, Hunter, Dunkley, Libba and Smith together and go "wow that must be amazing" but despite the immense talent that midfield contains it is not the dominant force it should add up to be.

Whether thats an issue of player types, personalities, game style or opposition plans I don't know but our midfield certainly is better on paper than it is in person.

[Axe Man]

I like your summary on our midfield which sadly lacks pace in the main and foot skills. Too many hand passes also limits opportunities for our forward line players. A case in point is Schache who leads well and is our best kick for goal but is limited because of poor delivery. Smith is an exception with good pace and skills. Our midfield has the capacity to get big disposals but our finishing leaves a lot to be desired resulting in poor returns on the scoreboard.

Is our delivery inside 50 really poor though? Rarely in today's game do you see a side regularly delivering lace out passes to forwards. The defensive structures are usually too good to allow this. We are fifth for marks inside 50 this season with an average of 9.4 per game (if the 2019 version of Bruce was playing and Naughton hadn't missed half the season we might be number 1). Brisbane are number 1 with 10.8. Interestingly the rankings are generally in line with ladder position with a few exceptions - us and Melbourne (4th) sit higher than our ladder position, Port (9th) and Collingwood (13th) sit lower.