The Moment: Elimination Final, 2020 vs St Kilda

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Why can't he comment on something that effected the game?

Never said he couldn't.

But we don't want to sit and complain about a rule that has been in place for 4 years. We'll get nowhere with that attitude and our prior 4 years correlate to that. I don't like the abolishment of the 3rd man up either, but under the current rules, nominating rucks is vital. Otherwise players could simply block the ruckman from contesting the ruck contest. It was a free kick and poor communication on our part. We need to start focusing on what we can control and not worry about things outside of it.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

You should watch it so you understand the context. It was complete sour grapes and woe is me

He was asked are we going to look at our ruck strategy and he basically said

*he doesn't want to bring in a number one ruck and inferred that our current number one ruck will look to leave
*we will continue doing what we are doing
*If the AFL wants to bring back the third man up rule that will help.

What exactly did he say to infer this? If that's English's attitude then it's disappointing.

[bornadog]

Never said he couldn't.

But we don't want to sit and complain about a rule that has been in place for 4 years. We'll get nowhere with that attitude and our prior 4 years correlate to that. I don't like the abolishment of the 3rd man up either, but under the current rules, nominating rucks is vital. Otherwise players could simply block the ruckman from contesting the ruck contest. It was a free kick and poor communication on our part. We need to start focusing on what we can control and not worry about things outside of it.

Obviously you haven't listened to the press conference. There was no complaint.

I am done with this topic

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Obviously you haven't listened to the press conference. There was no complaint.

I am done with this topic

There's certainly more than one way to complain. Anyway, I never said Bevo complained. But there is plenty of complaining on here about the rule.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

There's certainly more than one way to complain. Anyway, I never said Bevo complained. But there is plenty of complaining on here about the rule.

Speaking of rules, did the AFL ever announce they would go back to interpreting holding the ball the way they did prior to Clarksons whinge? Because ever since the end of the Gillan's circus of footy, it's gone back to what it used to be and even moreso since the finals started. What a joke.

[The Doctor]

This final was lost the moment we didn't land Ryder in the trade period last year.

We needed a ruckman. He would have been excellent support for English. He would have been a great mentor for Jamarra. He was relatively cheap. It was all too good to be true but we missed out. Well done Saints.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

This final was lost the moment we didn't land Ryder in the trade period last year.

We needed a ruckman. He would have been excellent support for English. He would have been a great mentor for Jamarra. He was relatively cheap. It was all too good to be true but we missed out. Well done Saints.

Couldn't agree more. I said the same thing in this thread. The moment was last seasons trade period. Right now we're crying out for a ruck, a small forward with pace and a key defender. The saints got all of Ryder, Butler and Howard very cheaply. Well played to them.

[comrade]

Couldn't agree more. I said the same thing in this thread. The moment was last seasons trade period. Right now we're crying out for a ruck, a small forward with pace and a key defender. The saints got all of Ryder, Butler and Howard very cheaply. Well played to them.

You look at the Saints at the sort of impact their traded in players have had: Steele, Ryder, Butler, Jones, Carlisle, Howard, even Hannebury was influential.

Then you look at ours: Keath has been great so far, Crozier has been a definite win and Duryea is solid, but beyond that you have Schache, Trengove, Bruce, Lloyd & Suckling that are all chewing up decent salary and this year have given us absolutely nothing.

Our trading has been a complete failure since 2016 and is probably a big factor as to why we're treading water.

[Scorlibo]

The nomination makes sense because you can't have a situation where a ruckman is blocked from going for the ruck contest.

You're right though. What is stupid is the getting rid of 3rd man up. Clears congestion. Quickens the game up with less stoppages and the ball tapped into free play. I don't ever remember a concern about it. What rationale was there to get rid of it? I was on too much of a high post premiership to take notice.

Yes I don't remember taking much notice either. Aside from basking in 2016's warm glow, at the time the Roughead-Boyd partnership was working nicely and we had no reason to believe the rule would be game-changing for us.

Never said he couldn't.

But we don't want to sit and complain about a rule that has been in place for 4 years. We'll get nowhere with that attitude and our prior 4 years correlate to that. I don't like the abolishment of the 3rd man up either, but under the current rules, nominating rucks is vital. Otherwise players could simply block the ruckman from contesting the ruck contest. It was a free kick and poor communication on our part. We need to start focusing on what we can control and not worry about things outside of it.

I don't entirely agree with you regarding Bevo's press conference. Without getting forensic, I didn't interpret his comments to be so much a complaint as a statement of fact in response to questions. He talked about the ruck role being so niche as to prohibit young rucks developing at the level, which I think is an interesting point, albeit something that's always been true (perhaps exacerbated by removing the third man up - hence the remark). The other impact of it being a niche role is that proven ruckmen are tightly held.

I thought the moment where JJ was incapable of marking the centred ball to get us away, or at least keep it in front of him and moving just prior to quarter time was a big moment.

A fully switched on or committed to the contest player wouldn't have done that and it kind of reflected our attention to detail.

I agree jeemak, that was a big moment that could have resulted in a goal for us if not for JJ's fumble.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

You look at the Saints at the sort of impact their traded in players have had: Steele, Ryder, Butler, Jones, Carlisle, Howard, even Hannebury was influential.

Then you look at ours: Keath has been great so far, Crozier has been a definite win and Duryea is solid, but beyond that you have Schache, Trengove, Bruce, Lloyd & Suckling that are all chewing up decent salary and this year have given us absolutely nothing.

Our trading has been a complete failure since 2016 and is probably a big factor as to why we're treading water.

I think it’s even more disappointing because we all thought after our flag, with such a young list, that we were on our way to a dynasty with the ability to attract good players from other clubs. We either won’t or can’t do that. Keath was a great get but apart from that we haven’t landed a gun.

[bornadog]

You look at the Saints at the sort of impact their traded in players have had: Steele, Ryder, Butler, Jones, Carlisle, Howard, even Hannebury was influential.

Then you look at ours: Keath has been great so far, Crozier has been a definite win and Duryea is solid, but beyond that you have Schache, Trengove, Bruce, Lloyd & Suckling that are all chewing up decent salary and this year have given us absolutely nothing.

Our trading has been a complete failure since 2016 and is probably a big factor as to why we're treading water.

LLoyd was leading goal kicker last year with 38 goals, and Suckling has been excellent up to this year where he has had continual issues with injuries.

[comrade]

LLoyd was leading goal kicker last year with 38 goals, and Suckling has been excellent up to this year where he has had continual issues with injuries.

As I said, both gave us nothing this year.

And Suckling hasn’t been excellent. He’s been a solid role player at best when injury hasn’t been an issue.

Trying to build an argument for our trading record using Lloyd and Suckling is akin to building a house on very shaky ground.

[soupman]

Yeah i think Suckling has been a win for us. His 2016 was seriously impressive, especially the first half. After that we have seen a consistent decline from him but he has still played important roles at both ends of the ground. Mid 2019 onwards though has been pretty poor and i think we lose nothing if we cut him, but overall his recruitment should be considered a success.

[Danjul]

You look at the Saints at the sort of impact their traded in players have had: Steele, Ryder, Butler, Jones, Carlisle, Howard, even Hannebury was influential.

Then you look at ours: Keath has been great so far, Crozier has been a definite win and Duryea is solid, but beyond that you have Schache, Trengove, Bruce, Lloyd & Suckling that are all chewing up decent salary and this year have given us absolutely nothing.

Our trading has been a complete failure since 2016 and is probably a big factor as to why we're treading water.

In 2019 the Dogs were smashed by Carlton, who were in a 25 game stint at the bottom of the ladder. Who wasn’t selected for the Dogs that week? Trengove and Schache. Who was in the team when the Dogs had their most successful winning streak in 4 seasons later in the year ? Trengove and Schache.

I think those trades were good. Lloyd proved his worth. The malaise does not stem from a lack of available talent.

[comrade]

In 2019 the Dogs were smashed by Carlton, who were in a 25 game stint at the bottom of the ladder. Who wasn’t selected for the Dogs that week? Trengove and Schache. Who was in the team when the Dogs had their most successful winning streak in 4 seasons later in the year ? Trengove and Schache.

I think those trades were good. Lloyd proved his worth. The malaise does not stem from a lack of available talent.

If the coaching group doesn’t select the players traded in, does it not make the trading strategy a failure.