Preseason Training 2021

[GVGjr]

By the way, anyone who says English needs to develop his physique further and get stronger etc is underrating the progress he has made since he arrived at the clib. From a physical development perspective there is no more excuses for English, he has Martin to train against and learn from plus Sweet throwing his weight around and he will reach the 50 game milestone early in the season so this year we will know if he is genuinely good enough

[bornadog]

this year we will know if he is genuinely good enough

I think he is genuinely good enough around the ground, but what we need is his ruckwork to be good enough.

He is still only 23 and I wouldn't expect him to mature till at least another 2 years, but needs to show his tap work is on the improve.

[GVGjr]

I think he is genuinely good enough around the ground, but what we need is his ruckwork to be good enough.

He is still only 23 and I wouldn't expect him to mature till at least another 2 years, but needs to show his tap work is on the improve.

He's just about through his 5th preseason with us and will soon play his 50th senior game plus he is now physically ready to compete so I don't want to minimise expectations on him based on his age. At some point age should not be a consideration in assessing if he is up to it or at what level he is capable of achieving because most other players are judged vastly quicker.
Based on that I think it's more than fair to set a level of expectation on him this year especially after bringing in Martin to support him
I don't think waiting until he is 25 plus before he actually starts to have his performances fairly evaluated is a reasonable consideration

[The Bulldogs Bite]

He's just about through his 5th preseason with us and will soon play his 50th senior game plus he is now physically ready to compete so I don't want to minimise expectations on him based on his age. At some point age should not be a consideration in assessing if he is up to it or at what level he is capable of achieving because most other players are judged vastly quicker.
Based on that I think it's more than fair to set a level of expectation on him this year especially after bringing in Martin to support him
I don't think waiting until he is 25 plus before he actually starts to have his performances fairly evaluated is a reasonable consideration

Agreed with this. About time we take off the training wheels with Tim he needs to improve and take big steps forward this year.

Thought his final v St. Kilda was awful and particularly the passage of play where he cuddled one of their midfielders when he should have buried him into the ground.

Plenty of ability as we all know but I want to see two things - 1) Improved ruck craft and 2) Aggression. The reality is that he can play like Bontempelli around the ground but if he can't compete in the ruck and become more assertive/aggressive, he can't play as a number one ruck.

I still have hopes but it's the lack of aggression which really concerns me. You need that to compete with Grundy, Gawn, Witts, Naitanui, Banker is etc

[bornadog]

He's just about through his 5th preseason with us and will soon play his 50th senior game plus he is now physically ready to compete so I don't want to minimise expectations on him based on his age. At some point age should not be a consideration in assessing if he is up to it or at what level he is capable of achieving because most other players are judged vastly quicker.
Based on that I think it's more than fair to set a level of expectation on him this year especially after bringing in Martin to support him
I don't think waiting until he is 25 plus before he actually starts to have his performances fairly evaluated is a reasonable consideration

All I am saying is he won't be at his peak till at least 25 years old.

[GVGjr]

All I am saying is he won't be at his peak till at least 25 years old.

So we should only judge players when they've had a chance to hit their perceived peak? I want to remove any of these barriers for Tim because now needs to take a step forward.
At TBB points out it's now time to remove the training wheels and ramp up expectations for Tim. He's no longer the skinny and inexperienced youngster that arrived at the club.

[bornadog]

So we should only judge players when they've had a chance to hit their perceived peak? I want to remove any of these barriers for Tim because now needs to take a step forward.
At TBB points out it's now time to remove the training wheels and ramp up expectations for Tim. He's no longer the skinny and inexperienced youngster that arrived at the club.

You are putting words into my mouth. I said no such thing.

All I am saying is he will reach his peak at 25 plus because the big guys mature at an older age. Gawn didn't hit his peak till about 28. As I said, I am expecting him to improve this year and start getting more hitouts. The one thing I am not expecting is Tim being a superstar in the ruck.

[GVGjr]

You are putting words into my mouth. I said no such thing.

All I am saying is he will reach his peak at 25 plus because the big guys mature at an older age. Gawn didn't hit his peak till about 28. As I said, I am expecting him to improve this year and start getting more hitouts. The one thing I am not expecting is Tim being a superstar in the ruck.

It appears you're wanting to hose down having expectations being placed on him based on his age saying he needs more time rather than accepting that it might be time for him to take another step forward.
Eventually we need to evaluate the level that English will achieve as a ruckman within the competition and work out what level of support he might need. We need to determine if he is going to be a top tier ruckman, middle of the road or someone outside of the best 8 or so and by the end of the year we should have a clearer picture if he can keep progressing

He's done very well so far with minimal support over the last two years and I'm all for putting the spotlight on him this year.
He needs to improve the timing of his leaps in the centre square contests, become a stronger mark around the ground and to become a better help with the defenders when he drops back there

Regarding Gawn, he has just turned 29 yo.
I think you're underestimating his career if you only think he came good and hit his peak at 28. He's been playing very good footy for 4 but more likely 5 years and started making progress about the same time in his career that I'm hoping Tim can.

[Bulldog Joe]

While English should get better over the next 2 to 3 seasons, he really needs to stamp his authority on games now.

He is big enough, but he does need to bring aggression to his game.

[jeemak]

Here's English and Gawn at the age Tim is now:

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...&fid1=O&fid2=O

Here's English and Gawn with Gawn an additional year older:

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...id2=A&fopt2=24

And a year older again:

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...id2=A&fopt2=25

If Tim can show this type of progression then I'll be happy, though I'm not sure he's going to be reaching the level Gawn has with respect to hit outs.

[GVGjr]

While English should get better over the next 2 to 3 seasons, he really needs to stamp his authority on games now.

He is big enough, but he does need to bring aggression to his game.

Exactly. It doesn't mean he can't keep improving but it's time for him to take a step forward

[bornadog]

Here's English and Gawn at the age Tim is now:

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...&fid1=O&fid2=O

.

So at the same age, Tim is already ahead of where Gawn was. It is the next year he needs to take the next step.

I am not disagreeing at all with anyone's assessment, all I am saying is don't expect Tim to be a superstar in the next year as he is still developing and will get even better in the next couple of years.

I want him to be very competitive this year and not get thrashed in the hitouts.

[jeemak]

I think he's been improving each yeah and think he will improve again. It's not unreasonable to expect him to be more aggressive and hold his ground/ compete better in ruck contests, and nullify his opponents dominance in the latter. It's also not unreasonable with his developing size and strength to expect him to not just hold his own but to start winning or at least levelling the ledger against some of the lesser opponents more often.

If he can do that then he's tracking really well.

[Axe Man]

Apparently we will be playing a scratch match against Hawthorn - not sure when or where.

[KT31]

Apparently we will be playing a scratch match against Hawthorn - not sure when or where.

I have heard we are going to have one against the Pies as well, also told Treloar twisted his ankle at training but nothing major.