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  1. #16
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    Re: Recruiting Treloar and Martin? Have we done the right thing?

    Im not smart enough to debate the pros and cons but what I do know is our midfield cohort wasn’t getting it done when it mattered (ruck included) so I can’t see the downside of adding some new personnel and structuring up differently (I’m choosing to believe we will play Martin and English together until proven otherwise).
    Our 1954 premiership players are our heroes, and it has to be said that Charlie was their hero.

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  3. #17
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    Re: Recruiting Treloar and Martin? Have we done the right thing?

    I get the uncertainty but I think the three posts above sum it up well too.

    We're also not privy to what our plan is for 2021 but I suspect we'll see changes based on the club's messaging post season. It finally sounds like we're losing patience to get better quickly, which is the (good) impression I get. Perhaps this means Bont plays more time forward? Yes he is our best mid, but that hasn't helped us in finals in recent years. Maybe his hip isn't as great as we'd like it to be? I think there's certainly merit in him playing more forward. Both Martin and Dangerfield have arguably done their best work in the forward half of the ground, no reason why Bont can't too - the game has started to shift for some of the premier mids.

    Does Treloar improve us defensively? No, but he improves us offensively. If he improves us offensively, well, by default he improves us defensively. I've said for a while our mid group has been overrated in the sense that in big games they've been really, really poor. Too often they've been belted off the park. While I agree Treloar isn't an outside player, his style improves us significantly - Smith is the only player of comparison who can win the ball and burst from stoppage. Smith has shown good signs at it, but he's nowhere near Treloar in this area YET.

    When I think of a few recent games, our mids have looked pedestrian around clearances/stoppages when they're getting belted. A lot of that is their defensive mindset, a lot of it is also their 'sameness' and lack of pace/ability to spread and create space. How often did we handball the footy around in a circle and/or quick kick it 20-30m to nothing? I think Treloar's natural game and burst around stoppages will improve this. He does blast a little but HIS movement will create movement UP the ground. At present, the only time this happens is when Smith gets it or if JJ gets it.

    As much as we (the fans) would like more grunt in a Boyd/Morris type, it's difficult to compare '16 to now. By that, I mean that we have strengths now that we didn't back then and vice versa. 16 is now proven, what we have now needs a lot of work but I think the ingredients of success are present. A Morris type would be handy though!

    Martin I don't see being a problem if he's contributing. In the past we've had the likes of Richards, Hayes, Roarke etc. routinely pick up sub 10 possessions and offer nothing, so having adequate ruck support is a no brainer for mine. I think English can be dangerous as a ruck/resting forward, Martin I'd imagine would predominately ruck and go to the bench.

    All in all, I think we could do with a quick small forward and a good key defender/Morris - the rest that's on the list we can make work.
    W00F!

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  5. #18
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    Re: Recruiting Treloar and Martin? Have we done the right thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post



    Can anyone ever remember in the history of the club where we have recruited an A grade established player from another AFL club and in their prime?.
    Over the history of the club I can think of 4 and then then I'm reaching back into the VFA days.

    1. Con McCarthy. 1921. We recruited him from Collingwood where he had been club captain, a premiership player and had captained Victoria all in the 2 year period we signed him. He as in his prime when he came across.

    2. Alec Eason. 1922. Ex Geelong. Was a star and also in his prime when we made him an offer he couldn't refuse. Even though he was 30 when he came over we made him the highest paid player in the game (in either VFL or the VFA) at 12 pounds per game. He played in 2 VFA premierships with us but was banned from playing in the VFL (for crossing competitions without a clearance) so retired in 1925 when we were accepted into the VFL. Eason is in both Geelong's Hall of Fame and Team of the Century.


    3. Bill Cubbins. Again he was 30 when we recruited him as captain coach in 1931 but he was St Kilda's captain at the time and still playing good footy.

    As the fourth you could mount an argument for Harvey Stevens. He was mysteriously left out of Collingwood's 1952 finals team so we swooped and signed him. He won the B&F in 1953 and played a key role in our 1954 premiership team. He was in his prime when he came to us and I'm sure that if Collingwood could have their time over they would have pulled out all the stops to keep him.

    But we haven't been a destination club for more than 50+ years.
    Have you been reading those Roddy Doyle books again, Dougal!?


    I have, yeah Ted, you big gobshite

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  7. #19
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    Re: Recruiting Treloar and Martin? Have we done the right thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    Can anyone ever remember in the history of the club where we have recruited an A grade established player from another AFL club and in their prime?
    Aker.

    Recruited after being run out of Bris-Vegas town due to issues with the coach and senior team-mates.
    Later run out of Footscray town due to issues with the coach and senior team-mates.

    I'm not saying there are parallels, but...
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

  8. #20
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    Re: Recruiting Treloar and Martin? Have we done the right thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    Aker.

    Recruited after being run out of Bris-Vegas town due to issues with the coach and senior team-mates.
    Later run out of Footscray town due to issues with the coach and senior team-mates.

    I'm not saying there are parallels, but...
    Aker was nowhere near his prime but I get your point.
    Our 1954 premiership players are our heroes, and it has to be said that Charlie was their hero.

  9. #21
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    Re: Recruiting Treloar and Martin? Have we done the right thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    Can anyone ever remember in the history of the club where we have recruited an A grade established player from another AFL club and in their prime?
    Rawlings.

    But I'm not sure you could say we 'recruited' him.

    What about 'manipulated the system' to force a player who wanted to play somewhere else (North) to play for us. One glorious debut game where he marked everything in the air (but unfortunately then showed with his goal-kicking exactly WHY he had been a defender at Hawthorn!) was followed by mediocrity and misery and an eventual transfer...to North!
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

  10. #22
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    Re: Recruiting Treloar and Martin? Have we done the right thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by comrade View Post
    Aker was nowhere near his prime but I get your point.
    Ummm - I reckon Aker was 29. He was 100% in his prime and played some breath-taking footy for us. Unfortunately Aker and the LT model were not sympatico and 'handstand-gate' might not have been the end but it certainly was the end of the beginning...
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

  11. #23
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    Re: Recruiting Treloar and Martin? Have we done the right thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    Can anyone ever remember in the history of the club where we have recruited an A grade established player from another AFL club and in their prime?
    And then we move on:

    Brad Hardie
    Andrew Purser
    Shorty Daniels
    Tony McGuinness
    Simon Beasley
    Jimmy Sewell

    I'm trying to think who else.

    Phil Krakouer was in the twilight but Nicky Winmar was still going strong.
    Paul Hudson.
    Jose Romero
    Tony Liberatore (though you could say he only 'became' elite after joining us)
    Richard Osborne
    ...
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

  12. #24
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    Re: Recruiting Treloar and Martin? Have we done the right thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    And then we move on:

    Brad Hardie
    Andrew Purser
    Shorty Daniels
    Tony McGuinness
    Simon Beasley
    Jimmy Sewell

    I'm trying to think who else.

    Phil Krakouer was in the twilight but Nicky Winmar was still going strong.
    Paul Hudson.
    Jose Romero
    Tony Liberatore (though you could say he only 'became' elite after joining us)
    Richard Osborne
    ...
    Did we get Ben Hudson's best years. My memory says yes but I think he did well at the Crows for a brief while too.

    Edit : Reckon we did. Was 29-32 years of age with us probably close to prime ruck years.

    Years Club Games (Goals)
    2004–2007 Adelaide 55 (6)
    2008–2011 Western Bulldogs 88 (9)
    2012 Brisbane Lions 18 (3)
    2013–2014 Collingwood 7 (1)

  13. #25
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    Re: Recruiting Treloar and Martin? Have we done the right thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    Aker.

    Recruited after being run out of Bris-Vegas town due to issues with the coach and senior team-mates.
    Later run out of Footscray town due to issues with the coach and senior team-mates.

    I'm not saying there are parallels, but...
    Aker had played his best football before he arrived at the Kennel so perhaps a year or two past his prime as BAD raised.
    Same with Hall
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

  14. #26
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    Re: Recruiting Treloar and Martin? Have we done the right thing?

    Treloar definitely adds something different to the midfield mix. As I said in a previous post, he is not an inside mid in the style of Libba or McCrae. I'd describe him as much more if a predator. His most elite trait is his capacity to choose his moment and pluck the ball out of congestion and break away with speed. He's not the sort of player that regularly feeds the ball out from under a pack. He's more reactive than that. I think he'd do well resting forward too as his capacity to read the congested ball and find space seem to be traits that a modern AFL forward line could do with. As for Martin, I like him as insurance and as a bit of protection for English. English is still a stick of a lad. He got smashed by Grundy in the first game of 2020. If he's going to be dogs first ruck for the next few years he needs some protection from the big brutes. Otherwise his body and his confidence might be too badly beaten.

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  16. #27
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    Re: Recruiting Treloar and Martin? Have we done the right thing?

    Another 5 players who were terrific for their former clubs and came to us in their prime.

    Stuart Magee
    made his debut for South Melbourne in 1962. By 1966 he was representing Victoria at interstate football.He was signed up by Footscray and became captain of the club during the 1970 season.

    Greg Parke (born 18 April 1948) is a former Australian rules footballer who played for Melbourne, Footscray and Fitzroy in the Victorian Football League (VFL).
    Parke made his VFL debut in 1968 with Melbourne and finished the season with more Brownlow Medal votes than any other Melbourne player. He played most of his football at centre half forward and in 1970 took 238 marks, the most in the league that season. He holds the AFL record for most marks in a game. His best year in front of goal came in 1972 when he topped Melbourne's goalkicking with 63 goals. In 1974 he crossed to Footscray where he played two seasons before finishing his career with one-year stints at Norwood in the South Australian National Football League and Fitzroy.

    Terry Wallace was Hawthorn's centreman from the late 1970s through the 1980s. Recruited from VFA club Camberwell, he was a member of Hawthorn's 1978 premiership side in what was his debut season. Nicknamed 'Plough' for his knack of crashing through packs, Wallace was Hawthorn's best and fairest winner in 1981 and 1983, the latter in another premiership year. He played in one further premiership side at Hawthorn in 1986. Often polling well in the Brownlow Medal counts, Wallace finished equal third in 1982 and equal sixth in 1983.
    After a contractual dispute with Hawthorn, Wallace received a clearance to Richmond but struggled in his only season with the club, eventually ending the year prematurely with a back injury. He finished his playing career with four seasons at Footscray which yielded back to back Charles Sutton Medals in 1988 and 1989.

    Jose Michael Romero (born 1 August 1971 in Chile), is a former Australian rules footballer.
    Romero, who was recruited from Jacana, played in the VFL/AFL for both the North Melbourne FC and Western Bulldogs.
    Debuting in 1987 with the Kangaroos, Romero played 109 games for the club before moving to the Western Bulldogs, debuting in 1995.
    Injury meant that the 1996 Charles Sutton Medallist (the Best and Fairest Award for the Bulldogs) was forced to retire during the 2001 season.[3] Romero served a stint as the club runner for the Bulldogs, as well as previously being part of the club's football department and serving as a member of the board.

    In 1990,Paul Hudson followed in his father Peter's footsteps and joined Hawthorn, for which he would play until the end of the 1996 season. A half forward, in his seven seasons at the club, he kicked 264 goals, averaging nearly 38 goals a year. In 1991, just his second year of AFL football, he finished fifth in the Brownlow Medal and kicked a couple of goals in their grand final victory. In the 1992 pre-season competition, he won the first ever Michael Tuck Medal for his performance in the grand final. He was traded to the Western Bulldogs for the 1997 season and he earned All-Australian selection in 1998.

  17. #28
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    Re: Recruiting Treloar and Martin? Have we done the right thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    And then we move on:

    Brad Hardie
    Andrew Purser
    Shorty Daniels
    Tony McGuinness
    Simon Beasley
    Jimmy Sewell

    I'm trying to think who else.

    Phil Krakouer was in the twilight but Nicky Winmar was still going strong.
    Paul Hudson.
    Jose Romero
    Tony Liberatore (though you could say he only 'became' elite after joining us)
    Richard Osborne
    ...
    This is starting to be like in 'Life of Brian'...what have the Romans ever done for us?!
    www.bulldogtragician.com A blog about being a lifelong fan of the Dogs and our quixotic attempt to replicate 1954. AND WE DID
    Author of "The Mighty West: the Bulldogs journey from daydream believers to premiership heroes"
    Twitter @bulldogstragic

  18. #29
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    Re: Recruiting Treloar and Martin? Have we done the right thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by The bulldog tragician View Post
    This is starting to be like in 'Life of Brian'...what have the Romans ever done for us?!
    Don't mention the war...I mean John Cleese!

  19. #30
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    Re: Recruiting Treloar and Martin? Have we done the right thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    And then we move on:

    Brad Hardie
    Andrew Purser
    Shorty Daniels
    Tony McGuinness
    Simon Beasley
    Jimmy Sewell

    I'm trying to think who else.

    Phil Krakouer was in the twilight but Nicky Winmar was still going strong.
    Paul Hudson.
    Jose Romero
    Tony Liberatore (though you could say he only 'became' elite after joining us)
    Richard Osborne
    ...
    Bernard Toohey. Glenn Coleman had retired but played some great footy with us. Ian Hampshire played 100 games with Geelong and 100 games with us

    If you're going with interstaters we should include Murray Rance, Ray Huppatz and Richard Cousins too. Maybe Ryan Hargrave's dad, Steve? He was a huge recruiting coup for us. He was WA's SOO captain when he came over but ended up stepping into one of the holes where the goalposts go while doing laps during preseason and wrecking his knee.

    Libba hadn't played a senior game with North he doesn't make the qualification criteria of being an established star. But if he did you would have to include Peter Foster.

    A few ful forwards.

    Alan Rait from Tasmania. He kicked 152 goals the year before he joined us and kicked 59 goals in his only full season with us before being injured.

    Bill Wood from NSW. Kicked 294 goals in 115 games, including 9 on debut v Collingwood in 1944. Also kicked 22 goals in a game for North Sydney during the war which was a senior record for many years.

    Jack Hutchinson from Richmond joined us in 1908 after setting the VFA record for a single season with 67 goals, then broke the record in his first season with us in 1909 with 68. Hutchinson kicked 16 goals in a game v North in 1908 and still holds the record for the most goals in a game for us.

    And George Bayliss also from Richmond in 1924. Won the VFL goalkicking with 63 in 1920 then joined us in the VFA in 1924. He played in our last VFA year and our first VFL year but didn't really set the world on fire.
    Have you been reading those Roddy Doyle books again, Dougal!?


    I have, yeah Ted, you big gobshite

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