Thanks Thanks:  2
Likes Likes:  6
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 32
  1. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,496
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Our Back line ranked 10th

    Quote Originally Posted by comrade View Post
    Young and Gardner are interchangeable. Both are timid footballers who are miles off the elite key defenders in the league.

    Young might be marginally ahead but it’s negligible.
    I like Keath, great pickup. He got consecutive 18 games to establish himself, with 16 as his most possessions. Young has had significantly less games but he already has 4 with more possessions than that. Young also had some better games than Hamling when he was with us.

    I saw him in a VFL game where he and T Boyd rucked. He held his ground against the opposition better - although I see him as a Specialist backman. If we had played Young on King and Keath further up the ground we would have won that final.

    In the first game this year he played on the forward line and the ball rarely got there- only 5 goals and Williams got one of them. Then banished. Like Schache, what he does well isn’t noticed. But make a mistake and he is out. Fortunately we have inferior players to take their places.

  2. Likes GVGjr liked this post
  3. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    10,597
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Our Back line ranked 10th

    Quote Originally Posted by Danjul View Post
    I like Keath, great pickup. He got consecutive 18 games to establish himself, with 16 as his most possessions. Young has had significantly less games but he already has 4 with more possessions than that. Young also had some better games than Hamling when he was with us.

    I saw him in a VFL game where he and T Boyd rucked. He held his ground against the opposition better - although I see him as a Specialist backman. If we had played Young on King and Keath further up the ground we would have won that final.

    In the first game this year he played on the forward line and the ball rarely got there- only 5 goals and Williams got one of them. Then banished. Like Schache, what he does well isn’t noticed. But make a mistake and he is out. Fortunately we have inferior players to take their places.
    Okay but... who gives a shit if he then can't defend the players he needs to play on? Daniel, JJ, Crozier and Williams and even Keath to a lesser extent are all able to provide some rebound so what we need is a Key Defender able to defend the TALL forwards. The jury is still entirely out on if he is capable of that.

  4. Thanks jeemak thanked for this post
  5. #18
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    8,896
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Our Back line ranked 10th

    I didn’t really give it enough specific thought at the time (had the red mist at Gardner’s continued selection I believe) but given that we were so intent on playing Keath as a traditional KPD, its even more astonishing to think we didn’t give Young more of a look in as an intercept defender last year, seeing as that’s been his whole game to date.
    - I'm a visionary - Only here to confirm my biases -

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,496
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Our Back line ranked 10th

    Quote Originally Posted by hujsh View Post
    Okay but... who gives a shit if he then can't defend the players he needs to play on? Daniel, JJ, Crozier and Williams and even Keath to a lesser extent are all able to provide some rebound so what we need is a Key Defender able to defend the TALL forwards. The jury is still entirely out on if he is capable of that.
    Look at the stats below. Young averages more rebounds per game than Keath and Gardner.
    Young played well as a tall in both games against GWS at the end of last year. In the first he was one of our better players and in the second it wasn’t his fault that GWS had close to 20 more scoring shots.

    Who have we played on talls that has done better? The honest answer is no body. Cordy got games when his opponents were getting heaps of goals week after week in 2019. Gardner gave up a match winning bag against Brisbane this year , over 20% of Hipwood’s goals for the year came from that match. Gardner got selected the next week, and every following match. Yeah, I know he trains well.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    27,890
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Our Back line ranked 10th

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bulldogs Bite View Post
    Yep - still burns me too. Never thought we tried hard enough to keep him either.
    He played a finals series where he beat Cyril Rioli, Patton and Buddy Franklin and we gave him up for a pick in the 30s. I will never understand that for as long as I live.
    Have you been reading those Roddy Doyle books again, Dougal!?


    I have, yeah Ted, you big gobshite

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    18,739
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Our Back line ranked 10th

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Days View Post
    I didn’t really give it enough specific thought at the time (had the red mist at Gardner’s continued selection I believe) but given that we were so intent on playing Keath as a traditional KPD, its even more astonishing to think we didn’t give Young more of a look in as an intercept defender last year, seeing as that’s been his whole game to date.
    Was he even playing as a defender this year in the seconds/ scratch matches? I honestly don't know.

    The annoyance at the lack of vision and reporting about specific players was fair this year. I imagine the even balancing of arguments solved versus those created from improved vision would be pretty good, but also think maybe one or two key questions could have been answered with a little bit more effort from the media department and coaching staff combined.

    I think Young could definitely be that intercept defender. However, the way footy was played this year I also think he could have had a year that would make many believers (of which I am one) skeptical of his future prospects. We were a rabble defending from the forward line through the middle most of the year when the game wasn't on our terms at least to some extent. Young would have looked *!*!*!*!ing terrible a lot of the time given the way he plays under those circumstances.

    Our problems in defence will only get fixed when we stop getting sucked too high and players take some responsibility for the open space behind them.
    Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.

  9. Likes hujsh liked this post
  10. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Hobart
    Posts
    5,864
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Our Back line ranked 10th

    Why are we fighting about Gardner when Duryea isn't mentioned? Our best lockdown defender

    Relative to other backlines we are better rebounders than defenders, we rely more on midfield pressure than other teams, but I would rank us a little higher
    If you kicked five goals and Tom Boyd kicked five goals, Tom Boyd kicked more goals than you.

    Formerly gogriff

  11. Likes bornadog liked this post
  12. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    10,597
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Our Back line ranked 10th

    Quote Originally Posted by Danjul View Post
    Look at the stats below. Young averages more rebounds per game than Keath and Gardner.
    Young played well as a tall in both games against GWS at the end of last year. In the first he was one of our better players and in the second it wasn’t his fault that GWS had close to 20 more scoring shots.
    Once again... who cares? That's not the primary attribute we need to add, it's a bonus.
    Quote Originally Posted by Danjul View Post

    Who have we played on talls that has done better? The honest answer is no body. Cordy got games when his opponents were getting heaps of goals week after week in 2019. Gardner gave up a match winning bag against Brisbane this year , over 20% of Hipwood’s goals for the year came from that match. Gardner got selected the next week, and every following match. Yeah, I know he trains well.
    And what happened in the following matches? He didn't actually do surprisingly well as a lockdown defender did he?

    Look I like Young and want him to succeed but I suspect we'd play him if he was ready to do the job we needed. And no the job is not to get possessions.

  13. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Mulligan's Boogie-board
    Posts
    13,681
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Our Back line ranked 10th

    Young does intercept ok, but Keath plays the 'intercept tall' role better.
    Young's weakness has been his one on one work but he is still 21 and growing into his body. I'd love to see him have a breakout year and become a legitimate AFL KPD but he is still learning the game and IIRC in 2019 at VFL level he played quite a bit of ruck/forward too and did ok.
    Western Bulldogs: 2016 Premiers

  14. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Wherever the dogs are playing
    Posts
    60,878
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Our Back line ranked 10th

    Quote Originally Posted by hujsh View Post
    Look I like Young and want him to succeed but I suspect we'd play him if he was ready to do the job we needed. And no the job is not to get possessions.
    I was told Young didn't train very well in the hub and struggled in the scratch matches.

    I hope he can get a good pre-season in him as we know he has some talent and the opening is there if he is able to take it.
    FFC: Established 1883

    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

  15. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    4,822
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Our Back line ranked 10th

    Quote Originally Posted by jeemak View Post
    Was he even playing as a defender this year in the seconds/ scratch matches? I honestly don't know.
    Well he started the year getting switched forward for no reason and then was played as one in the debacle that was round 1. After that who knows because apparently nobody at the club was attending our scratch matches.


    Our backline is weak because it's full of a bunch of guys who are not good one on one and a bunch of guys that are kind of jack of all trades master of none.

    Keath, Duryea and maybe Daniel are the only regulars back there who win more contests than they're expected to, and none of them are posting Dale Morris type levels. Crozier has his moments but because of the way he attacks the ball is very much an all or nothing proposition, Wood is ok at it but struggles against anyone bigger, Cordy is a terrible one on one defender and was literally the worst in the comp at it in 2019, which is amazing because if he isn't winning contests why is he playing, Gardner tries and is ok but got beaten up by Eric Hipwood the notoriously skinny forward, Williams is great with ball in hand and can take a mark but is terrible at defending anything at ground level.

    Add that to the fact that half those guys offer very little else: Crozier, Keath and Wood are all former good intercept defenders that don't intercept anymore, Gardner is more mobile than most full backs but for what gain and aside from 20m inboard kicks on his trusty left foot Cordy is hardly a distribution king. I think you could argue only Daniel and Williams atm are offering more than expected.

    No wonder our backline is mediocre.
    I should leave it alone but you're not right

  16. #27
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    8,896
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Our Back line ranked 10th

    Quote Originally Posted by jeemak View Post
    Was he even playing as a defender this year in the seconds/ scratch matches? I honestly don't know.

    The annoyance at the lack of vision and reporting about specific players was fair this year. I imagine the even balancing of arguments solved versus those created from improved vision would be pretty good, but also think maybe one or two key questions could have been answered with a little bit more effort from the media department and coaching staff combined.

    I think Young could definitely be that intercept defender. However, the way footy was played this year I also think he could have had a year that would make many believers (of which I am one) skeptical of his future prospects. We were a rabble defending from the forward line through the middle most of the year when the game wasn't on our terms at least to some extent. Young would have looked *!*!*!*!ing terrible a lot of the time given the way he plays under those circumstances.

    Our problems in defence will only get fixed when we stop getting sucked too high and players take some responsibility for the open space behind them.
    My main issue with Young on available vision is his tendency to play too far in front at all costs in order to intercept. It's not really reading the play as much as it is guessing that the position will give him a chance to intercept, and has lead to him getting dunked on many times. He hasn't really proven his one on one ability at any stage either.

    However, if the space was opened up for him to wholly intercept by Keath and (for arguments sake let's say) Cordy playing wholly defensively, then who knows maybe it gets better. Would have been nice to, you know, find out in some of those dead games in the middle of the year or even if someone could've pointed an iPhone at a scratch match for 10 minutes instead of tweeting at Stevo.
    - I'm a visionary - Only here to confirm my biases -

  17. #28
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    8,896
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Our Back line ranked 10th

    I also could not agree more with our pitiful defending from the forward line. Good thing we addressed it in the trade period by bringing in another small forward who thinks he's Tony Modra (or maybe Allen Jakovich based on those recent training pics).
    - I'm a visionary - Only here to confirm my biases -

  18. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    1,580
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Our Back line ranked 10th

    2020 was the perfect opportunity to select and test Young and Sweet but Bevo/MC were too stubborn/plain stupid imo, yet we continued to select Bruce and Gardner

  19. #30
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,496
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Our Back line ranked 10th

    Quote Originally Posted by jeemak View Post

    Our problems in defence will only get fixed when we stop getting sucked too high and players take some responsibility for the open space behind them.
    This has obviously been part of our game plan for the last 6 years. When it happens it costs us dearly.

    Who can forget Adelaide gaining the lead in the 2015 final.

    Ball went over the back to Tex Walker who was unmanned. He took a couple of bounces from defence and kicked to the only player ahead of him, Eddy Betts, who kicked an easy goal. Out we go in week one.

    This has been replayed hundreds of times in the last 6 years. The opposition gets such easy goals. They probably build part of their game plan against us based on it happening.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •