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  1. #46
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    Re: Why I'm optimistic about 2021.

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    Great forwards are a rarity and Naughton has the talent to be a great forward. For me, Naughton stays at FF.

    For the backline, I am not adverse at putting Bruce there where he played at GWS with Lew Young as the backup man. As for Schache, he has never played back, and I have a gut feel he can't. As a junior he did play some ruck, so make of it what you will.
    Given we've gone into matches before with Cordy and 186cm Wood as our two KPDs, I suspect we're not sending anyone back.
    Keath plays and Cordy gets chances as the no 2, with Lewie Young and Gardner forced to fight their way into the side for spots.

    Wood and Crozier both appear in our team's plans so they play intercept roles, we try to slow the opposition ball movement down and reduce the number of Cordy (or whichever no 2 KPD plays) one on ones.

    It's as much a team plan issue as a 'single player in a position' issue.
    Western Bulldogs: 2016 Premiers

  2. #47
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    Re: Why I'm optimistic about 2021.

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    Great forwards are a rarity and Naughton has the talent to be a great forward. For me, Naughton stays at FF.

    For the backline, I am not adverse at putting Bruce there where he played at GWS with Lew Young as the backup man. As for Schache, he has never played back, and I have a gut feel he can't. As a junior he did play some ruck, so make of it what you will.
    without disagreeing, I find the description of Naughton based upon hope rather than proven performance.

    In 2020 both Naughton and Bruce had a poor year on the forward line. Both averaged 7 possessions per game and both had 1 game with more than 2 goals. In each case that game was against a team that finished 17th or 18th.

    One thing they did prove is they can’t play together in the same forward line. Naughton did not play in the team when Bruce got his bag of goals, and vice versa. Compatibility is critical and Schache has played well with both, scoring goals without getting in their way (although I would be surprised if we see him given a decent run).

  3. #48
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    Re: Why I'm optimistic about 2021.

    Naughton as the second coming of Chris Grant is really based off one or two games that he has torn apart in amongst a bunch of games where he has had little to no impact. No one can look at the past 2 years and say that Naughton up forward has been a huge difference maker to our overall win/loss %.

    The big marks are exciting but I prefer having a balanced side where all zones of the ground are covered.
    Our 1954 premiership players are our heroes, and it has to be said that Charlie was their hero.

  4. #49
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    Re: Why I'm optimistic about 2021.

    Quote Originally Posted by comrade View Post
    Naughton as the second coming of Chris Grant is really based off one or two games that he has torn apart in amongst a bunch of games where he has had little to no impact. No one can look at the past 2 years and say that Naughton up forward has been a huge difference maker to our overall win/loss %.

    The big marks are exciting but I prefer having a balanced side where all zones of the ground are covered.
    I agree that Naughton's impact forward is overrated and overstated at the moment.

    Danjul (i think) said Naughton's main play as a forward has been to swing momentum for us, not necessarily kick goals and that's a really good assessment so far. When Naughton looks dangerous, we inevitably look a hell of a lot better but aside from maybe 4-5 games he hasn't exactly proven himself to be a key forward who can regularly hit the scoreboard.

    That sounds like I'm knocking Naughton but I'm not. I've said he needs a big year but I still think he's a great forward option for many reasons. I'm fine with us STARTING Naughton forward, but what I don't want to see is him barely getting a touch for weeks while our key defenders are being embarrassed. He should be our swingman; we PREFER him forward but if it's not working for a period of time, we push him back and we bring in Schache or we play English forward/Martin ruck.

    If we're not prepared to be flexible with Naughton then we're not giving ourselves the best chance of team success.
    W00F!

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  6. #50
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    Re: Why I'm optimistic about 2021.

    Quote Originally Posted by comrade View Post
    Naughton as the second coming of Chris Grant is really based off one or two games that he has torn apart in amongst a bunch of games where he has had little to no impact. No one can look at the past 2 years and say that Naughton up forward has been a huge difference maker to our overall win/loss %.

    The big marks are exciting but I prefer having a balanced side where all zones of the ground are covered.
    In 2019, at 19 years of age Naughton took the most contested marks in the AFL and had 59 scoring shots.

    In 2020, he only played 12 games, and didn't hit the same heights, but still had 21 scoring shots (6 goal assists) and took 42 marks.

    I think he has made a huge impact into our forward line.
    FFC: Established 1883

    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

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  8. #51
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    Re: Why I'm optimistic about 2021.

    Resisting the urge to start a sister "Why I'm worried about 2021" thread ... because you know we're gonna need it.
    BORDERLINE FLYING

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  10. #52
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    Re: Why I'm optimistic about 2021.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket Science View Post
    Resisting the urge to start a sister "Why I'm worried about 2021" thread ... because you know we're gonna need it.
    This thread is more like 'Why I don't know what to think about 2021'
    Our 1954 premiership players are our heroes, and it has to be said that Charlie was their hero.

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  12. #53
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    Re: Why I'm optimistic about 2021.

    Quote Originally Posted by Danjul View Post
    Considering that the team has not had a strong, contested marking lock-down backman in years, and there’s a glut of potential match winning forwards, it’s logical to see using Naughton as a key backman as a massive improvement.
    If you listed every player who has worn the tri-colour in the entire history of the club there STILL wouldn't be a 'glut' of potential match-winning forwards.
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

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  14. #54
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    Re: Why I'm optimistic about 2021.

    Quote Originally Posted by comrade View Post
    Naughton as the second coming of Chris Grant...
    Chris Grant probably played 50% of his time at CHB.

    On a potentially unrelated note, Chris Grant never played in a winning premiership side.

    "WE" took the safe option - 'great defender' - over the 'HARD' one. CHAMPION forward.

    Playing the forward line is bloody hard. Naughton is our best bet. This is the part of the field where you cannot afford to have the 2nd best option - you HAVE to swing for the fences.
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

  15. #55
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    Re: Why I'm optimistic about 2021.

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    In 2019, at 19 years of age Naughton took the most contested marks in the AFL and had 59 scoring shots.

    In 2020, he only played 12 games, and didn't hit the same heights, but still had 21 scoring shots (6 goal assists) and took 42 marks.

    I think he has made a huge impact into our forward line.
    In 2019 Schache played in only 14 games, 9 less than Naughton , but still he kicked 24 goals. Didn’t do his reputation any good.

    Reminds me of the old advertising slogan “oils ain’t oils”. Well, goals ain’t goals when it’s Schache kicking them.

    personally, I couldn’t understand why the club chased Bruce when they had seen how well Naughton and Schache (and Dale) combined in the last half of 2019. Each played a different role on the forward line and they complemented each other perfectly.

    Unfortunately they were not allowed to play their natural game again. Naughton, the big mark in space to launch near goal. Schache the strong lead followed by long range accuracy. Dale working the holes in the defence.

    putting English at CHF doesn’t disturb that balance, just adds more goals.

    Just dreaming, none of it will happen.

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  17. #56
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    Re: Why I'm optimistic about 2021.

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    Chris Grant probably played 50% of his time at CHB.

    On a potentially unrelated note, Chris Grant never played in a winning premiership side.

    "WE" took the safe option - 'great defender' - over the 'HARD' one. CHAMPION forward.

    Playing the forward line is bloody hard. Naughton is our best bet. This is the part of the field where you cannot afford to have the 2nd best option - you HAVE to swing for the fences.
    This^^^

    Anyone can defend. (well not anyone, but it is sure easier than the forward line)

    Chris Grant at CHB - what a waste that was.
    FFC: Established 1883

    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

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  19. #57
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    Re: Why I'm optimistic about 2021.

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    This^^^

    Anyone can defend. (well not anyone, but it is sure easier than the forward line)

    Chris Grant at CHB - what a waste that was.
    I actually disagree with this, it wasn't a waste. I think Grant was a very good forward without being a great one but as defender he was sensational and his field kicking went to a new level. We transitioned the ball so much quicker when Grant was the CHB.


    I don't disagree with the notion that it's harder to find a great forward than it is to find a great defender though and that is why I'd like us to stick with Naughton up forward.
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

  20. #58
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    Re: Why I'm optimistic about 2021.

    Didn't Grant come second in the Brownlow voting as a CHB and coming first in the voting as a CHF the next year where we came agonisingly close to making a grand final and the two years following when we should have done better at the pointy end? If so, I'm not sure that was taking the easy way out for us.
    Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.

  21. #59
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    Re: Why I'm optimistic about 2021.

    Quote Originally Posted by GVGjr View Post
    I actually disagree with this, it wasn't a waste. I think Grant was a very good forward without being a great one but as defender he was sensational and his field kicking went to a new level. We transitioned the ball so much quicker when Grant was the CHB.


    I don't disagree with the notion that it's harder to find a great forward than it is to find a great defender though and that is why I'd like us to stick with Naughton up forward.
    I think he was one of the greatest CHF that has played for us and highly underrated by the AFL. Kicked 554 goals

    How many games did he play at CHB? I think he only played a couple of seasons out of 18 ( I could be wrong) but his record shows only a few seasons where he didn't kick many goals. - see here

    Youngest player to kick 50 goals - he was 17. Absolute freak player.
    FFC: Established 1883

    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

  22. #60
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    Re: Why I'm optimistic about 2021.

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    I think he was one of the greatest CHF that has played for us and highly underrated by the AFL. Kicked 554 goals

    How many games did he play at CHB? I think he only played a couple of seasons out of 18 ( I could be wrong) but his record shows only a few seasons where he didn't kick many goals. - see here

    Youngest player to kick 50 goals - he was 17. Absolute freak player.
    But the statement I challenged was the one around it was a waste to have him at CHB. There is no way it was a waste
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

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