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  1. #31
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    Re: Why I'm optimistic about 2021.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1eyedog View Post
    Naughton can play back and in all honesty I'd try Bruce back there also. Either one of them back and English forward. If martin can ruck big minutes surely we must assume that English's output can surpass Bruce's of last year. He is an excellent overhead mark.
    Naughton can play back.

    Big woop.

    He has shown himself to be the best key forward prospect since Chris Grant. Why *WOULD* he be the one to go back??

    I don't mean to be snarky but this 'send Naughton back' narrative is really getting to me.
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

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  3. #32
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    Re: Why I'm optimistic about 2021.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1eyedog View Post
    Naughton can play back and in all honesty I'd try Bruce back there also. Either one of them back and English forward. If martin can ruck big minutes surely we must assume that English's output can surpass Bruce's of last year. He is an excellent overhead mark.

    Schache, well we don't even know if he's going to be played at all. I dunno, I'm still lost on why we would play English as our number 1 ruck for two years straight and then bring in Martin. I'm just trying to look at ways it can work
    Rebuilding about 8 years ago saw The Dogs spend a few years putting together a fantastic group of players. They had a mixture of talent and ambition which combined with great teamwork to overcome weaknesses. Unfortunately one of the consequences of their success was the belief that ruck wasn’t important. That, and a few other strange strategic beliefs, led to the rapid decline in relevance in the competition.

    Bringing in Martin suggests that a back to basics movement is underway, and if it extends to other positions on the field, we may finally see a return to seeing the Dogs as a top tier team.

  4. #33
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    Re: Why I'm optimistic about 2021.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1eyedog View Post
    Naughton can play back and in all honesty I'd try Bruce back there also. Either one of them back and English forward. If martin can ruck big minutes surely we must assume that English's output can surpass Bruce's of last year. He is an excellent overhead mark.

    Schache, well we don't even know if he's going to be played at all. I dunno, I'm still lost on why we would play English as our number 1 ruck for two years straight and then bring in Martin. I'm just trying to look at ways it can work
    I guess there might be 4 factors in this 1) making the decision on JT 2) a realisation that Sweet isn't ready 3) The performance by English through 2020 4) Not wanting to subject Dunkley to ruck duties again

    I still don't see how we can consistently play two ruck man given we've stubbornly tried our best to stick too one for the last few seasons. It will be interesting to see if Bevo and the MC have a level of flexibility for a new set-up
    "There are Sharks and Minnows in this World and if you don't know which one you are then you aint a Shark"

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  6. #34
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    Re: Why I'm optimistic about 2021.

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    Naughton can play back.

    Big woop.

    He has shown himself to be the best key forward prospect since Chris Grant. Why *WOULD* he be the one to go back??

    I don't mean to be snarky but this 'send Naughton back' narrative is really getting to me.
    I know you are big on Naughts forward and so am I. It is borne purely out of my frustration with the CHB position at our club. I don't think Gardner is good enough to play AFL, Lew Young is not being played for whatever reasons and is raw and English cannot be played anywhere other than ruck or potentially forward.

    Playing Devil's advocate here and I know he was coming off an injury this year but Naughton did nothing forward all year. A monster game against the Tigers and one or two other games where he has looked lively (especially against the Swans before injuring his knee) does not have me 100% convinced.

    Naughton has played some of his best football back and yes, if the team requires it ala Grant its an option I would consider. I would be trying Bruce there in front of Gardener first though with English and Naughton forward. Bruce is a cannonball and could do more harm than good playing alongside Naughton in the forward line this year.

    CHB goes like this for me Lew Young, Bruce, Schache, Gardner. Naughton is clearly our best CHB it's an unfortunate dichotomy he is also our best forward.
    Josh Schache >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Jake Stringer

  7. #35
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    Re: Why I'm optimistic about 2021.

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    Naughton can play back.

    Big woop.

    He has shown himself to be the best key forward prospect since Chris Grant. Why *WOULD* he be the one to go back??

    I don't mean to be snarky but this 'send Naughton back' narrative is really getting to me.
    I get why it's being mentioned and suggested but I'd be very surprised if we made that move. He's a special talent at both ends of the ground but he can be a match winner up forward.
    "There are Sharks and Minnows in this World and if you don't know which one you are then you aint a Shark"

  8. #36
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    Re: Why I'm optimistic about 2021.

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    Naughton can play back.

    Big woop.

    He has shown himself to be the best key forward prospect since Chris Grant. Why *WOULD* he be the one to go back??

    I don't mean to be snarky but this 'send Naughton back' narrative is really getting to me.
    In the last 2 years as a forward Naughton has had 5 games where he has kicked more than 2 goals.

    His main contribution to the team has been generating momentum, not goals.

    Considering that the team has not had a strong, contested marking lock-down backman in years, and there’s a glut of potential match winning forwards, it’s logical to see using Naughton as a key backman as a massive improvement.

    Although I am open to leaving him at the end the wind is blowing to.

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  10. #37
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    Re: Why I'm optimistic about 2021.

    Quote Originally Posted by GVGjr View Post
    I guess there might be 4 factors in this 1) making the decision on JT 2) a realisation that Sweet isn't ready 3) The performance by English through 2020 4) Not wanting to subject Dunkley to ruck duties again

    I still don't see how we can consistently play two ruck man given we've stubbornly tried our best to stick too one for the last few seasons. It will be interesting to see if Bevo and the MC have a level of flexibility for a new set-up
    Some might argue that “stick to none” might be historically more accurate.

  11. #38
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    Re: Why I'm optimistic about 2021.

    Should we play Naughton where it's best for him (and his highlights reel) or best for the team? Because I'm yet to be convinced it's the same position.
    Our 1954 premiership players are our heroes, and it has to be said that Charlie was their hero.

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  13. #39
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    Re: Why I'm optimistic about 2021.

    Quote Originally Posted by comrade View Post
    Should we play Naughton where it's best for him (and his highlights reel) or best for the team? Because I'm yet to be convinced it's the same position.
    That's a very good distinction to make. We have to make it work with what we've got, they just all can't play forward so someone will be earmarked for a different role. Lets hope the brains trust have studied the permutations and combinations and have a decent set of plans for the season. I'd say the pre-season will give us a sneak preview.

  14. #40
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    Re: Why I'm optimistic about 2021.

    Great forwards are a rarity and Naughton has the talent to be a great forward. For me, Naughton stays at FF.

    For the backline, I am not adverse at putting Bruce there where he played at GWS with Lew Young as the backup man. As for Schache, he has never played back, and I have a gut feel he can't. As a junior he did play some ruck, so make of it what you will.
    Established 1877
    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

  15. #41
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    Re: Why I'm optimistic about 2021.

    Quote Originally Posted by comrade View Post
    Should we play Naughton where it's best for him (and his highlights reel) or best for the team? Because I'm yet to be convinced it's the same position.
    Exactly. If we can get a better result with him in defence, Bruce as our main target and with English playing part time forward wouldn't we go with it?

  16. #42
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    Re: Why I'm optimistic about 2021.

    Quote Originally Posted by Danjul View Post
    In the last 2 years as a forward Naughton has had 5 games where he has kicked more than 2 goals.

    His main contribution to the team has been generating momentum, not goals.

    Considering that the team has not had a strong, contested marking lock-down backman in years, and there’s a glut of potential match winning forwards, it’s logical to see using Naughton as a key backman as a massive improvement.

    Although I am open to leaving him at the end the wind is blowing to.
    Naughton hasn't played as a lockdown defender. He originally played with us as an attacking intercept defender, a role we have currently good coverage with. What we don't have is a gamechanging key forward prospect. Obviously Jamarra may develop into one.

  17. #43
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    Re: Why I'm optimistic about 2021.

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    Great forwards are a rarity and Naughton has the talent to be a great forward. For me, Naughton stays at FF.

    For the backline, I am not adverse at putting Bruce there where he played at GWS with Lew Young as the backup man. As for Schache, he has never played back, and I have a gut feel he can't. As a junior he did play some ruck, so make of it what you will.
    Agree, I think Bruce will play in defence before Naughton.

  18. #44
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    Re: Why I'm optimistic about 2021.

    Quote Originally Posted by Danjul View Post
    In the last 2 years as a forward Naughton has had 5 games where he has kicked more than 2 goals.

    His main contribution to the team has been generating momentum, not goals.

    Considering that the team has not had a strong, contested marking lock-down backman in years, and there’s a glut of potential match winning forwards, it’s logical to see using Naughton as a key backman as a massive improvement.

    Although I am open to leaving him at the end the wind is blowing to.
    A glut?

    Who of our forwards is dangerous enough to turn a game in our favour?

    Bruce? Maybe St.Kilda Bruce, but certainly not the liability that played for us last year.
    Wallis? Has had some good moments but is not the guy to conjure up something special to make the difference. He more fills the role of a steady head who can convert an opportunity when needed.
    Ugle Hagen? Eventually yes but atm we can't expect that of him.
    Hannan? The guy that was fringe at Melbourne? Not on what we've seen.
    Schache? Tidy at times bu also serial absentee in games and the furthest thing from what I imagine a "match winning forward" to be.
    Bont? If he can kick straight sure but I prefer him in the middle.
    Dunkley? Competent forward, wouldn't say game changeing though.
    Vandermeer? Lets work on him establishing himself as a best 22 guy first.
    English? He is a tidy ruckman who has shown he can be ok drifting into our forwardline.

    Naughton would be an incredible key defender, but he is also the only guy that would make opposition defences worried. He is the only guy that can turn it on for a quarter and potentially tear the game apart. He is probably our best defensive pressure forward, our best contested marking forward, our hardest forward to stop and he certainly makes the rest of the forwardline better.

    Our forwardline is Essendon level without Naughton. That's not a good thing.

    I am annoyed we haven't really seemed to fix our defensive issues, but swinging Naughton back is only an option when we are under siege in a game and need some steel down there for 5 minutes.
    I should leave it alone but you're not right

  19. #45
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    Re: Why I'm optimistic about 2021.

    Quote Originally Posted by GVGjr View Post
    I guess there might be 4 factors in this 1) making the decision on JT 2) a realisation that Sweet isn't ready 3) The performance by English through 2020 4) Not wanting to subject Dunkley to ruck duties again
    5) The soft cap meaning we have to reduce the off-field coaching budget

    Stef Martin/Luke Hodge/Sam Mitchell/Joel McDonald type deals will become more common in coming years. Yes, I'm convinced Stef has been brought in as much as a mentor/coach as for his on field role.
    Western Bulldogs: 2016 Premiers

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