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View Poll Results: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2

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  • AFL quality

    7 36.84%
  • VFL quality

    6 31.58%
  • Delist

    0 0%
  • Needs more time

    6 31.58%
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  1. #1
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    Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2

    With the retirement of Suckling we come to the end as we finish evaluating each player on our list starting with the highest number Lin Jong down to Lewis Young.
    The poll will run for a week and when your post in the poll if you can give a reason on your thoughts so we can share your insights.
    At the end we'll see how our list looks in the eyes of WOOF members.
    There are plenty of talented people in the world. As you already know, talent is not enough. Some of the athletes with the most potential never pan out. What separates the good from the great is determination and work ethic.

  2. #2
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    Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2

    A few stats:
    Age : 22
    Height: 197cm
    Weight: 96Kg
    Games: 15

    The Bulldogs' third pick in the 2016 NAB AFL Draft (selection 49 overall), Young was taken as key forward from South Australia but transitioned into a defensive role in his debut season at VU Whitten Oval. Just 17-years-old when drafted, the South Australian scraped into draft eligibility by just 11 days but showed major improvement this season. Young debuted in Round 17, 2017 against Carlton at the MCG, making a total of seven senior appearances in his debut season. The emerging defender played five senior games in 2019, and was one of 11 Bulldogs to make an AFL finals debut in that post-season. Young re-signed for two years in July, 2019, which means he will remain a Bulldog until at least the end of 2021.
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    There are plenty of talented people in the world. As you already know, talent is not enough. Some of the athletes with the most potential never pan out. What separates the good from the great is determination and work ethic.

  3. #3
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    Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2

    *fires up a fresh batch of popcorn*
    BORDERLINE FLYING

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  5. #4
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    Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2

    2021 is a big year for Young (no need for the Le anymore). He appears to be more at home as a defender but could be used as a key forward and occasional ruckman as well

    Cordy, Gardner and Keath are all in his way for a regular senior spot so he has a lot to work on to become a regular senior player

    If he isn't in the mix for senior selection early in the season he might struggle to get in. I hope he both earns his spot and given some chances to impress
    "There are Sharks and Minnows in this World and if you don't know which one you are then you aint a Shark"

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    Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2

    Quote Originally Posted by GVGjr View Post
    2021 is a big year for Young (no need for the Le anymore). He appears to be more at home as a defender but could be used as a key forward and occasional ruckman as well

    Cordy, Gardner and Keath are all in his way for a regular senior spot so he has a lot to work on to become a regular senior player

    If he isn't in the mix for senior selection early in the season he might struggle to get in. I hope he both earns his spot and given some chances to impress
    In 2020 Naughton played 12 games and you could count his possessions on one hand in half of them. Two hands would be enough for the other half. Yes, I think he is a good player. Yes, I think he will be a superstar.

    And yes, I think he can thank god that his name isnít Young. (So can Bruce).

    And yes, he hasnít had a game where he has had as many possessions as Young had in his first.

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    Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Danjul View Post
    In 2020 Naughton played 12 games and you could count his possessions on one hand in half of them. Two hands would be enough for the other half. Yes, I think he is a good player. Yes, I think he will be a superstar.

    And yes, I think he can thank god that his name isn’t Young. (So can Bruce).

    And yes, he hasn’t had a game where he has had as many possessions as Young had in his first.
    Naughton finished 4th in the B&F in his first year without being fit the whole year. Why do you place so much emphasis on possessions for every single player? It's not a useful metric in isolation. Young sometimes gets the ball but doesn't usually do a lot with it and I'd rather he get his defensive work sorted before celebrating how many times he got the ball.

    This is how we get Matt Boyd declared our best midfielder this decade...

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  9. #7
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    Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2

    I put him down for the VFL but in doing so I feel he won't get a long enough run at it to see if he makes it or not.
    He is young (in age age) and if we go on the big guys take longer he hasn't reached his prime yet and he did come to us on the cusp of just being old enough to get drafted.
    I don't think he has much more than being one of the foot soldiers if he did crack it and I have doubts on an extension next year.
    I think the big forward can out muscle him and he falls into the intercept mold we have plenty of.
    There are plenty of talented people in the world. As you already know, talent is not enough. Some of the athletes with the most potential never pan out. What separates the good from the great is determination and work ethic.

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  11. #8
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    Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2

    Quote Originally Posted by hujsh View Post
    Naughton finished 4th in the B&F in his first year without being fit the whole year. Why do you place so much emphasis on possessions for every single player? It's not a useful metric in isolation. Young sometimes gets the ball but doesn't usually do a lot with it and I'd rather he get his defensive work sorted before celebrating how many times he got the ball.

    This is how we get Matt Boyd declared our best midfielder this decade...
    In reverse order.

    Matt Boyd was a great player and the team was always better with him in it. He was still capable of being best on ground in his last game.

    If Young gets 2 games you know he will be dropped for the next 15, unlike Gardner or Richards or Bruce etc.

    To me, getting the ball a significant number of times is a good indication of how both the team and the player are going.

    When someone with exceptional talent averages 7 possessions per game over a whole season it suggests the problem goes beyond the player. When a player consistently gets 20+ possessions and then is dropped, to become Ďtrade baití discussion on WOOF, it also suggests questionable selections (not referring to Young).

    To be honest I have not got a clue about how the club uses metrics. And thatís coincided with the clubís crash in the middle of 2017, and its struggle to get out of the bottom half of the ladder since then. Only 7 weekends better than 8th in 3.5 years (54 games). Pretty depressing when you see how other clubs maintain cohesion and success better.

    The Dogs have not finished a season in the top four since 2010. To me that is another metric indicating how the club is going. Richmond has finished top four in the last four seasons (they live with expectations, not hope).

    I would love to see an explanation of how metrics are being used. Thatís why I am here. I have discovered that 1%ers are pure gold, for example. I have discovered that opposition metrics are irrelevant also. Feel free to enlighten me further, then I might enjoy 2021.

  12. #9
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    Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2

    This thread is about Young.

    I put him down as needs more time.

    In 2020 he couldn't crack a game because he played very poorly in the scratch matches. I don't know if he was one of the players that came back from the COVID break out of shape, but he really needs to knuckle down and get himself super fit.

    He has a great opportunity to snag a Key backman role as there aren't too many contenders. He has shown he has some talent, but he needs to be consistent and follow the coaches instructions.

    I think he can make it, but it is all up to him to perform.
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  13. #10
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    Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2

    Needs more time for mine.

    He has to get as strong and as fit as he possibly can, and become a reliable true defender as well as an interceptor. I can't see him forging a career forward with us simply due to a lack of opportunity in the area, though he could possibly chop out in the ruck (again though, only if fit and strong).

  14. #11
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    Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Danjul View Post
    In reverse order.

    Matt Boyd was a great player and the team was always better with him in it. He was still capable of being best on ground in his last game. Also played a huge part in winning that premiership.

    If Young gets 2 games you know he will be dropped for the next 15, unlike Gardner or Richards or Bruce etc.

    To me, getting the ball a significant number of times is a good indication of how both the team and the player are going.

    When someone with exceptional talent averages 7 possessions per game over a whole season it suggests the problem goes beyond the player. When a player consistently gets 20+ possessions and then is dropped, to become ‘trade bait’ discussion on WOOF, it also suggests questionable selections (not referring to Young).

    To be honest I have not got a clue about how the club uses metrics. And that’s coincided with the club’s crash in the middle of 2017, and its struggle to get out of the bottom half of the ladder since then. Only 7 weekends better than 8th in 3.5 years (54 games). Pretty depressing when you see how other clubs maintain cohesion and success better.

    The Dogs have not finished a season in the top four since 2010. To me that is another metric indicating how the club is going. Richmond has finished top four in the last four seasons (they live with expectations, not hope).

    I would love to see an explanation of how metrics are being used. That’s why I am here. I have discovered that 1%ers are pure gold, for example. I have discovered that opposition metrics are irrelevant also. Feel free to enlighten me further, then I might enjoy 2021.
    Matt Boyd was at his best when he stopped playing in the middle and got less but more influential touches in the backline. He's a perfect case study of when less is more.

    I'm sure there are plenty of things you can learn from various metrics in the AFL but there's also a lot you have to simply observe in person (or on TV as it has been this year).

    For Young my questions would be:
    How many possessions of his are from interceptions?
    How many of his possessions were short/sideways kicks (non momentum building essentially)?
    How did he perform defensively (harder one to pull up metrics on)?
    Did his possessions lead to any turnovers/goals?
    How did he perform as part of the overall defensive structure (no idea how you'd quantify this)?

    Naughton may not have got many possessions but he wasn't the best user of the ball and clearly he did the rest of his job well down there. I'd back him down there over Young for sure.

    I see some similarities between Young and Gardner with Young being more talented. Yet Gardner got more games this year. To me (and based on the occasional report here) this indicates that Young has been very bad with either form, fitness or conduct unless we believe the MC are arbitrary or play favourites (haha Roarke Smith skateboard goes brrr).

  15. #12
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    Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2

    Quote Originally Posted by hujsh View Post

    For Young my questions would be:
    How many possessions of his are from interceptions?
    How many of his possessions were short/sideways kicks (non momentum building essentially)?
    How did he perform defensively (harder one to pull up metrics on)?
    Did his possessions lead to any turnovers/goals?
    How did he perform as part of the overall defensive structure (no idea how you'd quantify this)?


    I see some similarities between Young and Gardner with Young being more talented. Yet Gardner got more games this year. To me (and based on the occasional report here) this indicates that Young has been very bad with either form, fitness or conduct unless we believe the MC are arbitrary or play favourites (haha Roarke Smith skateboard goes brrr).
    Young has played 15 games over 4 seasons. He plays 2 then misses 15. No opportunity to establish himself in the team. And I cannot rely on memory, so I will have to refer to average stats Per game to respond.

    Keath: kicks 6.3 marks 3.9 disposals 10 contested marks 3.8. 1% 4.5. bounces 0.1. rebounds 2 clangers 0.2

    and we all love him.

    Young: kicks 7.5. marks 4.4. disposals 11.6 contested marks 3.9 1% 5.8. bounces 0.2. rebounds 2.7 clangers 0.1

    Better in every category.

    For comparison

    Gardner: kicks 3.8 marks 2.4 disposals 7.3 contested marks 2.3. 1% 6.7 bounces 0. rebounds 0.8. clangers 0.2

    Young is almost double in most categories.

    Now to to test my memory- Young goes NOrth/south and Gardner goes east/west.

    But Gardner gets selected consistently.

    (And if the staff canít get Young on the paddock it reflects badly on them. He was a potential champion.)

  16. #13
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    Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Danjul View Post
    Young has played 15 games over 4 seasons. He plays 2 then misses 15. No opportunity to establish himself in the team. And I cannot rely on memory, so I will have to refer to average stats Per game to respond.

    Keath: kicks 6.3 marks 3.9 disposals 10 contested marks 3.8. 1% 4.5. bounces 0.1. rebounds 2 clangers 0.2

    and we all love him.

    Young: kicks 7.5. marks 4.4. disposals 11.6 contested marks 3.9 1% 5.8. bounces 0.2. rebounds 2.7 clangers 0.1

    Better in every category.

    For comparison

    Gardner: kicks 3.8 marks 2.4 disposals 7.3 contested marks 2.3. 1% 6.7 bounces 0. rebounds 0.8. clangers 0.2

    Young is almost double in most categories.

    Now to to test my memory- Young goes NOrth/south and Gardner goes east/west.

    But Gardner gets selected consistently.

    (And if the staff can’t get Young on the paddock it reflects badly on them. He was a potential champion.)
    This post simply proves that stats don't tell the story of a player. If it did, Joel Bowden would be considered 4 times the player Dale Morris was.

    Lewis Young struggles one on one, the stats don't reflect that. He's 22 so still has time, but would want to push for more gametime this year. His future is as a backman given the options we now have forward of the ball.
    Western Bulldogs: 2016 Premiers

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  18. #14
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    Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2

    A big shout out to Hotdog60 who stayed the course on these player threads

    Thanks HD60
    "There are Sharks and Minnows in this World and if you don't know which one you are then you aint a Shark"

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  20. #15
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    Re: Rating our list 2020 Lewis Young 2

    Quote Originally Posted by GVGjr View Post
    A big shout out to Hotdog60 who stayed the course on these player threads

    Thanks HD60
    Ditto.

    Great effort with a good analysis of our list, player by player and some good discussion by woofers.
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    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

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