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  1. #46
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    Re: Our club was born in blood and boots...

    We’re just waiting for OUR intensity to go up once the real season starts. It’s been flatlining since 2016. I don’t expect anything to change this year so we’ll once again simply rely on our awesome handball game to get us over the line. What we saw against hawthorn was nothing but a carbon copy of everything we’ve seen the last 4 seasons. We’ve now got one of the most talented midfields ever assembled yet at the same time probably one of the meekest.

    I know, I know. It’s only preseason.

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  3. #47
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    Re: Our club was born in blood and boots...

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldogsthru&thru View Post
    We’re just waiting for OUR intensity to go up once the real season starts. It’s been flatlining since 2016. I don’t expect anything to change this year so we’ll once again simply rely on our awesome handball game to get us over the line. What we saw against hawthorn was nothing but a carbon copy of everything we’ve seen the last 4 seasons. We’ve now got one of the most talented midfields ever assembled yet at the same time probably one of the meekest.

    I know, I know. It’s only preseason.
    Share similar concerns and remain adamant that, had I been a position to make the call, Bevo would have been sacked R2 2018. My great fear is that we’ve seen what’s on offer and know exactly what we will get for a while now.

    That being said, I’m not feeling quite as grim about our prospects right now. Think there has been just enough moments that suggest the weight talent will carry us somewhere and it’s going to be a battle upstairs or under the jumper that makes the difference.

    2 goals and a fight. That’d be what I would want to emphasise, consecutive scores and then emphasise the really aggressive, combative elements of the game to try keep their heads in that dogged space, rather than the millionaire mindset.

  4. #48
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    Re: Our club was born in blood and boots...

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldogsthru&thru View Post
    We’re just waiting for OUR intensity to go up once the real season starts. .
    You know that is not true. It is natural for human beings to play harder when the real stuff starts.

    You watch any preseason game and compare it to a game for points and then a game in the finals. The intensity level is different in all three.

    Maybe we will be rubbish this year, who knows, the competition is such that anyone can win any time
    FFC: Established 1883

    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

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  6. #49
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    Re: Our club was born in blood and boots...

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    You know that is not true. It is natural for human beings to play harder when the real stuff starts.

    You watch any preseason game and compare it to a game for points and then a game in the finals. The intensity level is different in all three.

    Maybe we will be rubbish this year, who knows, the competition is such that anyone can win any time
    I think what some are arguing is that we've failed to bring intensity in all of these types of games in recent seasons, starting off with a lack of intensity in practice games, followed by a lack of intensity in home and away games to kick off the season, followed by a lack of intensity in first week finals.

    The theory being that we don't have the ability to flick the switch for the season, or for finals and we should try bringing it to every type of game we play as a standard.
    Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.

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  8. #50
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    Re: Our club was born in blood and boots...

    The concern for me is that all the points raised in the thread have been raised and discussed previously.

    I will not be surprised one bit if we are discussing exactly the same points in Feb 2022.
    More of an In Bruges guy?

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  10. #51
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    Re: Our club was born in blood and boots...

    Yeah I mean for sure we will lift our intensity for round 1. But relative to the competition, it isn’t enough and is not at the level required to be a serious threat. We might even make the 8 with the suspected level of intensity we have given the talent we have. But I’m sure we all agree we have the pedigree to seriously push for a premiership. I just don’t care for week 1 finals exits where we go out without a whimper.

    And as azabob said, this is a recurring theme for years and it’s well evident there is frustration on here with the lack of change at the club to address the same old problems.

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  12. #52
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    Re: Our club was born in blood and boots...

    Is this thread inferring the players don't care enough to try or is it simply comparing 1990s football to 2021 football?
    But then again, I'm an Internet poster and Bevo is a premiership coach so draw your own conclusions.

  13. #53
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    Re: Our club was born in blood and boots...

    Quote Originally Posted by 1eyedog View Post
    Is this thread inferring the players don't care enough to try or is it simply comparing 1990s football to 2021 football?
    Not at all.
    FFC: Established 1883

    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

  14. #54
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    Re: Our club was born in blood and boots...

    Quote Originally Posted by 1eyedog View Post
    Is this thread inferring the players don't care enough to try or is it simply comparing 1990s football to 2021 football?
    Neither, the effort compared to other 2021 teams was terrible.

    That final against the Saints was just painful to watch.

  15. #55
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    Re: Our club was born in blood and boots...

    Quote Originally Posted by 1eyedog View Post
    Is this thread inferring the players don't care enough to try or is it simply comparing 1990s football to 2021 football?
    I'll answer since it the comments were mine.

    Yes - it is saying the players don't care enough about winning to do everything that is required to do so.

    I think they DO care about being thought of as "GOOD" players. I think they absolutely care about that. But they are placing importance on things that don't really matter with regards the win-loss column.
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

  16. #56
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    Re: Our club was born in blood and boots...

    It's very interesting to me that on a discussion forum people are dismissive of others who go to the effort to encourage conversations and challenge the status quo by adding some well thought out comments or opinions. The paradigm has shifted but we have all been starved for vision and updates on how the club is progressing so to me it's no wonder people are questioning where we are at because it's not like the club is out there selling a vision.

    About WOOF

    It seems it's more than okay for Bevo to keep reminding the members that as a club we are impatient for success but if a WOOF member exhibits a level of frustration or impatience with how quickly the club is moving forward or if they are learning from mistakes of the previous years then that really isn't okay

    I could go on

    We are a club that has won one flag since 54 so if many of our supporters are comfortable with that then that's fine but on a discussion forum I can't be critical of members being impatient for success after all the coach is saying it as well

    Just a couple of points I want to make, I get why some people don't like reading comments that aren't all 'how good are we?' or ones that have a negative tone to it but.....you all have a chance and the option to drive discussions on here towards a more positive vibe

    How many of you who are critical of some of the WOOF members in the Hawks practice game thread actually went to the effort to call out or reflect on the positives that you saw in the game rather than just sitting back and being critical of those who challenged the performance?

    How many commented on how great it was to see Jongy back or that Rhylee West is making some progress? How many mentioned how Bailey Smith is getting better and that English looked impressive up forward?
    Or did you just say nothing or very little preferring sit back and be critical of those who at least went to the effort to share their opinions because you think it was negative?

    You all have the chance to change opinions and shape the direction of conversations towards a more positive reflection of the club. Lets see if you accept the challenge.
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

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  18. #57
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    Re: Our club was born in blood and boots...

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    I'll answer since it the comments were mine.

    Yes - it is saying the players don't care enough about winning to do everything that is required to do so.

    I think they DO care about being thought of as "GOOD" players. I think they absolutely care about that. But they are placing importance on things that don't really matter with regards the win-loss column.
    That is an interesting observation. Do you think there is anything that will make the penny drop if that's the case? Ergo what will/can we do to change that maybe lack of killer instinct that the really successful sides have. I mean if someone had of told me Trent Cotchin would be a 3 time premiership captain 5 years ago I would have taken those odds.

    How does it build, is it something organic or magical like the perfect mix, or is it something we can construct from within.

    I agree with the sentiment that every time you put that jumper on you give it your all.

    A great example is Besart Berisha the A League's greatest goal scorer. His desire to win is second to none and no matter where or when he plays, it's like its his last game.

    I was lucky enough to go to a pre season match close to where I live, with basically no one there and stood right next to where Bes was on the pitch.
    He had the rage, the white line fever, the crazy eyes and was so incensed with a part time linesman that called him offside twice he berated him for 5 minutes right in front of me. He wants to win. There are no "practise" matches. But he is a rare beast.

    Can you create that or is it something genetic that some have and some don't?
    Can you capture lightning in a bottle with the right mix like we did for a season, and the Tigers have done for 4?

    I honestly don't know the answer but it's a great topic for discussion, enjoying how this is making me think about the team and what we need to take the extra step.

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  20. #58
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    Re: Our club was born in blood and boots...

    Quote Originally Posted by Grantysghost View Post
    That is an interesting observation. Do you think there is anything that will make the penny drop if that's the case? Ergo what will/can we do to change that maybe lack of killer instinct that the really successful sides have. I mean if someone had of told me Trent Cotchin would be a 3 time premiership captain 5 years ago I would have taken those odds.

    How does it build, is it something organic or magical like the perfect mix, or is it something we can construct from within.

    I agree with the sentiment that every time you put that jumper on you give it your all.

    A great example is Besart Berisha the A League's greatest goal scorer. His desire to win is second to none and no matter where or when he plays, it's like its his last game.

    I was lucky enough to go to a pre season match close to where I live, with basically no one there and stood right next to where Bes was on the pitch.
    He had the rage, the white line fever, the crazy eyes and was so incensed with a part time linesman that called him offside twice he berated him for 5 minutes right in front of me. He wants to win. There are no "practise" matches. But he is a rare beast.

    Can you create that or is it something genetic that some have and some don't?
    Can you capture lightning in a bottle with the right mix like we did for a season, and the Tigers have done for 4?

    I honestly don't know the answer but it's a great topic for discussion, enjoying how this is making me think about the team and what we need to take the extra step.
    I know this is a dog’s forum but agree Besart Berisha is a great example of what we need more of. (And Melb. Victory does too!!). Hoping the footy gods allow Naughts and Libba to play most matches-they are both sparks. Then with Jong & Wallis acting as kindle who give their all and you never know - we might have a recipe for blood & boots like 2015/16 again. Personally would love Tim English to show a bit of a rough but fair stuff too-x fingers that comes with increased size and confidence.

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  22. #59
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    Re: Our club was born in blood and boots...

    The players referenced in the OP were Morris, Boyd, Picken, Biggs and Smith. Except for Smith, all these players got onto an AFL list through the rookie draft. Is this a coincidence or a pointer to the desperation they displayed throughout their decorated careers? Luke Dahlhaus and Lin Jong are another couple of ex-rookies who tick the desperation box. Without exception all these players fell into the 'no elite AFL skills' or 'to many sub-standard skills'. That's why they fell through to the rookie draft and I dare any poster to say they were wildly excited when the Dogs picked them up. And, with the possible exception of Morris, they all copped plenty of criticism for their lack of skills throughout their careers. But what they all had in spades was an insatiable determination to succeed. They understand blood and boots and they are incredibly important to the fabric of the team. I think we are a bit quick to judge our rookies on the basis of their lack of elite skills and begrudge them games earned through hard work on the track and sacrificing their own game for the team plan. I really hope that Roarke Smith, Ryan Gardner, Lachie McNeil and Anthony Scott can force their way into the best 22 along with Lin Jong because that will mean we have grit and determination in equal measure to class and elite skills.
    The Angels have the phone box. Don't blink!

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  24. #60
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    Re: Our club was born in blood and boots...

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    I'll answer since it the comments were mine.

    Yes - it is saying the players don't care enough about winning to do everything that is required to do so.

    I think they DO care about being thought of as "GOOD" players. I think they absolutely care about that. But they are placing importance on things that don't really matter with regards the win-loss column.
    This is really interesting.

    Kids are becoming increasingly complex today and I do not begrudge the coach who has to turn skilful, nice players into win at all costs contested animals. Players either have this or they don't and while I do believe it can be coached into a young player to a degree that process is becoming increasingly difficult.

    I have wondered whether Bevo has a Staff Sargeant approach and my guess is he doesn't. He seems to be a nurturer with little to no plan B. Not like I really know but somewhere in the middle of the two would be good. We saw where Macca's disciplinarian style got us i.e. players walking out the door but the polar opposite does not seem to get us anywhere either, other than as you say essentially having a team of downhill skiers.
    But then again, I'm an Internet poster and Bevo is a premiership coach so draw your own conclusions.

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