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Re: Congratulations to Marcus Bontempelli - 150 Games
No disrespect ratsmac but the premiership medallion argument doesn't stack up. The players not lucky enough to earn one largely had no choice in the matter, and it's more likely than not that Bont won't ever put another one around his neck again.
Chris Grant almost won a Brownlow from CHB, and then did in terms of votes from CHF in consecutive years. No key position player has done that since. At that time he wasn't lucky enough to get on the end of a run to kick a goal to get in front, but it doesn't mean he couldn't have. And irrespective of the way Bont moves, Chris Grant moved better and was much more adept at doing freakish things around goal.
Luke "free pass" Hodge was a very good footballer. He captained great sides that were balanced and won flags. Does that make him a better player than Scott West who could have done the same but didn't have the opportunity and had to put up with only winning seven best and fairest awards across teams who had moderate success and failure? In a school yard line up, I'm taking West every day of the week.
And then we have Johnno. Only won a couple of All Australian's playing high, but then another four playing low....one of which he captained. Is he better than Martin Pike? I think he is but he didn't win a flag but Pike won three.........
The emphasis on player legacies based on winning flags or otherwise is bullshit. Matthew Pavlich was never ever going to win a flag, and people put the fact he never did against his legacy and it's ridiculous. In the 2008-2011 period if we had Matthew Pavlich playing as he did at that time we'd have won flags......
Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.
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Re: Congratulations to Marcus Bontempelli - 150 Games
That Melbourne game feels like yesterday.
The curse is dead.
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Re: Congratulations to Marcus Bontempelli - 150 Games
Originally Posted by
chef
That Melbourne game feels like yesterday.
After THAT goal, I said to my old man ‘we’re gonna be alright’. Felt nice after some **** years.
Our 1954 premiership players are our heroes, and it has to be said that Charlie was their hero.
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Re: Congratulations to Marcus Bontempelli - 150 Games
I was red hot on Scharenberg in Bonts draft year. Glad it wasn’t my choice.
Good on you Bont. Western suburbs royalty.
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Re: Congratulations to Marcus Bontempelli - 150 Games
Originally Posted by
comrade
After THAT goal, I said to my old man ‘we’re gonna be alright’. Felt nice after some **** years.
There's a really good interview somewhere (with Bob?) where Bont breaks down what he was doing during the play.
I loved the bit where he says he uses his eyes to throw opposition players off his next move, if you're ever wondering how a 193cm 90+ kg player with poor acceleration is constantly able to evade opposition players in heavy traffic.
Western Bulldogs: 2016 Premiers
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Re: Congratulations to Marcus Bontempelli - 150 Games
Originally Posted by
jeemak
No disrespect ratsmac but the premiership medallion argument doesn't stack up. The players not lucky enough to earn one largely had no choice in the matter, and it's more likely than not that Bont won't ever put another one around his neck again.
Chris Grant almost won a Brownlow from CHB, and then did in terms of votes from CHF in consecutive years. No key position player has done that since. At that time he wasn't lucky enough to get on the end of a run to kick a goal to get in front, but it doesn't mean he couldn't have. And irrespective of the way Bont moves, Chris Grant moved better and was much more adept at doing freakish things around goal.
Luke "free pass" Hodge was a very good footballer. He captained great sides that were balanced and won flags. Does that make him a better player than Scott West who could have done the same but didn't have the opportunity and had to put up with only winning seven best and fairest awards across teams who had moderate success and failure? In a school yard line up, I'm taking West every day of the week.
And then we have Johnno. Only won a couple of All Australian's playing high, but then another four playing low....one of which he captained. Is he better than Martin Pike? I think he is but he didn't win a flag but Pike won three.........
The emphasis on player legacies based on winning flags or otherwise is bullshit. Matthew Pavlich was never ever going to win a flag, and people put the fact he never did against his legacy and it's ridiculous. In the 2008-2011 period if we had Matthew Pavlich playing as he did at that time we'd have won flags......
You're 100% correct and I actually agree. Fletcher Roberts isn't a better than Chris Grant either because he has a premiership medal. Brownlow medals isn't a great judge of a player either. Wayne Carey, Gary Ablett Snr, Leigh Matthews for example didn't win one either, yet Shane Woewodin did. My point I was making and I stand by it that when talking champion players, and moreso at the end of their careers, what sets them apart from other champion players is premierships, championships, titles what ever you want to call it. Bontempelli kicks that goal in the prelim to put us in front when others before him miss that shot. There something in that. A premiership medallion holds a lot of weight when talking great players IMHO.
They've done studies you know, 60% of the time, it works every time!
Brian Fantana.
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Re: Congratulations to Marcus Bontempelli - 150 Games
Originally Posted by
Mofra
There's a really good interview somewhere (with Bob?) where Bont breaks down what he was doing during the play.
I loved the bit where he says he uses his eyes to throw opposition players off his next move, if you're ever wondering how a 193cm 90+ kg player with poor acceleration is constantly able to evade opposition players in heavy traffic.
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Re: Congratulations to Marcus Bontempelli - 150 Games
There is no doubt in my mind that whatever Bont achieves in the future will simply add to a legacy that has already reached a status such that, in years to come, when I'm pushing the daisies up, parents will tell their kids and grandkids: "I saw him play and he was a champion."
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Re: Congratulations to Marcus Bontempelli - 150 Games
Originally Posted by
ratsmac
You're 100% correct and I actually agree. Fletcher Roberts isn't a better than Chris Grant either because he has a premiership medal. Brownlow medals isn't a great judge of a player either. Wayne Carey, Gary Ablett Snr, Leigh Matthews for example didn't win one either, yet Shane Woewodin did. My point I was making and I stand by it that when talking champion players, and moreso at the end of their careers, what sets them apart from other champion players is premierships, championships, titles what ever you want to call it. Bontempelli kicks that goal in the prelim to put us in front when others before him miss that shot. There something in that. A premiership medallion holds a lot of weight when talking great players IMHO.
100% agree with you rats. The champion players that you cant separate allows you to add in things like a premiership medallion.
Grant was my fav player of all time but Bont has taken over that mantle and the fact that he was instrumental in 2016 plays a part in that.
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Re: Congratulations to Marcus Bontempelli - 150 Games
That episode of Barkley st was kind of hard to listen to with Marcus sucking in air every 10 seconds.
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Re: Congratulations to Marcus Bontempelli - 150 Games
Originally Posted by
Topdog
That episode of Barkley st was kind of hard to listen to with Marcus sucking in air every 10 seconds.
It was the same with Libba's.
Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.
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Re: Congratulations to Marcus Bontempelli - 150 Games
Originally Posted by
ratsmac
You're 100% correct and I actually agree. Fletcher Roberts isn't a better than Chris Grant either because he has a premiership medal. Brownlow medals isn't a great judge of a player either. Wayne Carey, Gary Ablett Snr, Leigh Matthews for example didn't win one either, yet Shane Woewodin did. My point I was making and I stand by it that when talking champion players, and moreso at the end of their careers, what sets them apart from other champion players is premierships, championships, titles what ever you want to call it. Bontempelli kicks that goal in the prelim to put us in front when others before him miss that shot. There something in that. A premiership medallion holds a lot of weight when talking great players IMHO.
Good post ratsmac.
In the past I've been of the "medals doesn't make you a better player" argument, and whilst there's truth to that, it's not black and white. The reality is Grant had an opportunity to elevate his status by kicking us into a GF in 1997 but stuffed it. Bont has nailed his biggest moments.
That alone doesn't mean Bont is better than Grant, but we can't deny the fact that one was a key component in the greatest AFL Premiership flag of all time, while the other was part of a team that blew a home PF against an interstate side.
If Grant kicks that PF goal and leads us to a Premiership in 1997 it's a different conversation, but sadly it's not.
** FWIW I still think Grant is our #1 but I think Bont is edging closer and closer **
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Re: Congratulations to Marcus Bontempelli - 150 Games
Originally Posted by
ratsmac
You're 100% correct and I actually agree. Fletcher Roberts isn't a better than Chris Grant either because he has a premiership medal. Brownlow medals isn't a great judge of a player either. Wayne Carey, Gary Ablett Snr, Leigh Matthews for example didn't win one either, yet Shane Woewodin did. My point I was making and I stand by it that when talking champion players, and moreso at the end of their careers, what sets them apart from other champion players is premierships, championships, titles what ever you want to call it. Bontempelli kicks that goal in the prelim to put us in front when others before him miss that shot. There something in that. A premiership medallion holds a lot of weight when talking great players IMHO.
So does it need to be separated into who had a better career vs. who was the better player?
Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.
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Re: Congratulations to Marcus Bontempelli - 150 Games
Originally Posted by
Mofra
There's a really good interview somewhere (with Bob?) where Bont breaks down what he was doing during the play.
I loved the bit where he says he uses his eyes to throw opposition players off his next move, if you're ever wondering how a 193cm 90+ kg player with poor acceleration is constantly able to evade opposition players in heavy traffic.
Ah, the old Osipczak
https://gfycat.com/aromaticregularhart-mma
"It's over. It's all over."
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Re: Congratulations to Marcus Bontempelli - 150 Games
Originally Posted by
jeemak
And then we have Johnno. Only won a couple of All Australian's playing high, but then another four playing low....one of which he captained. Is he better than Martin Pike? I think he is but he didn't win a flag but Pike won three.........
.
Think Pike won 4. 1 Roos, 3 Lions. Pretty good resume!