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  1. #91
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 8 Vs Carlton 2021

    When it comes to Cordy vs Young, some points:
    - Young has a way bigger upside and ability to actually 'play tall'
    - Perception from Bevo/reality that Young isn't mentally up to the level. I heard someone on here compare him to Geoff Hayward from The Club, I have thought the same. How much of his confidence issues come from him and/or Bevo not giving him a sustained time in the team is the big one here.
    - I think it becomes a safe 3/10 option with Zaine vs 1-7/10 range with Young. Young and Schache are two guys who can just have a big crisis of confidence in game (or just not get near it).

    I think Zaine's ceiling is very low and what he offers simply isn't enough to not take the punt on Young.
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  2. #92
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 8 Vs Carlton 2021

    Isn't funny how 12 months ago we couldn't wait to see the last of Gardner and now fast forward those twelve months and we can't wait for him to come back in.
    Don't piss off old people
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  4. #93
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 8 Vs Carlton 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Hotdog60 View Post
    Isn't funny how 12 months ago we couldn't wait to see the last of Gardner and now fast forward those twelve months and we can't wait for him to come back in.
    Ha, yeah I have seen a few say this and it's very true.

    I think it speaks to our lack of quality down back than his ability but nonetheless true.
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  6. #94
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 8 Vs Carlton 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Hotdog60 View Post
    Isn't funny how 12 months ago we couldn't wait to see the last of Gardner and now fast forward those twelve months and we can't wait for him to come back in.
    Not really. While he has improved it would have been the same result if he were playing instead of Cordy Friday if not worse. Our best option at FB/CHB IMO is Young and for some reason gets 1/10 of the chances Gardner has had. I don't get to see all behind closed doors but from my POV I really don't get it?

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  8. #95
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 8 Vs Carlton 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by G-Mo77 View Post
    Not really. While he has improved it would have been the same result if he were playing instead of Cordy Friday if not worse. Our best option at FB/CHB IMO is Young and for some reason gets 1/10 of the chances Gardner has had. I don't get to see all behind closed doors but from my POV I really don't get it?
    Agree with this.

    I don't see a highly competent AFL defender in Gardner yet. Sure he has improved (from a low base), but he isn't great 1 on 1 and doesn't back himself in the air to take a grab when he has the opportunity to... which is vital in the modern game.

    I too have NFI why he has been favored so heavily to Young.

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  10. #96
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 8 Vs Carlton 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Mantis View Post
    Agree with this.

    I don't see a highly competent AFL defender in Gardner yet. Sure he has improved (from a low base), but he isn't great 1 on 1 and doesn't back himself in the air to take a grab when he has the opportunity to... which is vital in the modern game.

    I too have NFI why he has been favored so heavily to Young.
    I think those paying attention all know 'why' but it's about whether it is right (I am with you, don't get me wrong).

    It seems that Bevo sees Young as being flakey/uncompetitive/confidence issues. He proves that a fair bit but it clearly might be a self-fulfilling prophecy. Being dropped for things relating to self belief...

    I see Gardner as an upgrade on Cordy. Cordy a 'safe' 3/10, Gardner a safe 5/10 and Young anything 2-7/10.

    At the very least I see playing Cordy as very unambitious.
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  11. #97
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 8 Vs Carlton 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocco Jones View Post
    I think those paying attention all know 'why' but it's about whether it is right (I am with you, don't get me wrong).

    It seems that Bevo sees Young as being flakey/uncompetitive/confidence issues. He proves that a fair bit but it clearly might be a self-fulfilling prophecy. Being dropped for things relating to self belief...

    I see Gardner as an upgrade on Cordy. Cordy a 'safe' 3/10, Gardner a safe 5/10 and Young anything 2-7/10.

    At the very least I see playing Cordy as very unambitious.
    Hey Bevo, how about you give Lewis a bit of confidence and back him in rather than drop him at the first *!*!*!*!ing opportunity... having re-watched the GC game to see what Young did wrong I'm struggling to see the issue. He got caught out of position a couple of times when GC sliced through the middle of the ground, but Cordy did this on repeat on Friday night.. and gave nothing offensively.

    And is Gardner's rating on effort or output?

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  13. #98
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 8 Vs Carlton 2021

    It’s unfortunate our best backman is playing FF.

    Keath should be lapping it up like Lever, but is forced to play more as a FB/CHB due to our lack of options. Cordy is almost done in 2021 version of AFL. Young won’t be given a good run at it, and the guy Bevo loves for whatever reason is out injured (and nothing more than a pretty good VFL type).

    We just need to admit that we haven’t got the KPD cattle that will allow us to go with the top teams. It’s funny, whenever we talk about matchups, it’s always the FF of the opposition (Lynch, McKay, Dixon, Hawkins, King) that gets talked about, coz it’s blatantly obvious, it’s our Achilles heel. A FB is seriously required if Naughton is going to remain a fwd.
    I will never see #16 the same!!

  14. #99
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 8 Vs Carlton 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Mantis View Post
    Hey Bevo, how about you give Lewis a bit of confidence and back him in rather than drop him at the first *!*!*!*!ing opportunity... having re-watched the GC game to see what Young did wrong I'm struggling to see the issue. He got caught out of position a couple of times when GC sliced through the middle of the ground, but Cordy did this on repeat on Friday night.. and gave nothing offensively.

    And is Gardner's rating on effort or output?
    Gardner's effort is a 10. I think he can do a bit with the team defence, get the fist in at a decent height. I'm being kind to him but he offers 'something'. With Zaine, I am totally with you. Other than he will fly the flag etc, I don't get his currency.

    With Young, we either have to play him for a string of games (unless absolutely and clearly terrible. He was not this v Suns) just let him play in VFL or trade him.

    Thing with the Suns dropping too, he didn't even get one whole game to be 'poor' in defence. He was moved into the ruck. His margin for error with Bevo is miniscule.
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  16. #100
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 8 Vs Carlton 2021

    It might have something to do with the ground Gardner can cover and how quickly he can cover it versus what Young can.

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  18. #101
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 8 Vs Carlton 2021

    Gardner spends a lot of TOG so this helps with the limited rotations. He didn't come off the ground in the Eagles game giving 100% in a tough game.
    Cordy against the Giants spent the whole game 100% TOG so I think this helps Bevo keep his mid field running.

    So it may be more about quantity rather than quality so there is more at play with the midfield and giving them time to run out the game and not have someone else's bum on the pine.
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  20. #102
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 8 Vs Carlton 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Hotdog60 View Post
    Gardner spends a lot of TOG so this helps with the limited rotations. He didn't come off the ground in the Eagles game giving 100% in a tough game.
    Cordy against the Giants spent the whole game 100% TOG so I think this helps Bevo keep his mid field running.

    So it may be more about quantity rather than quality so there is more at play with the midfield and giving them time to run out the game and not have someone else's bum on the pine.
    So it’s Young’s tank that is the issue?

  21. #103
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 8 Vs Carlton 2021

    I think we are looking for a key defender that fits well positionally into our zone defence/press, and is disciplined and competitive in contests.

    Gardner is definitely both those things, plays his role well in a system, clearly has a great attitude and I'm also pretty sure the club rates his kicking (yes I remember his absolute howlers early on).

    Cordy I think is pretty good at being in the right place, is competitive in contests (although probably lacks the ability to truly have an impact) and has the trust from the MC that his attitude and discipline is good.

    Young I suspect doesn't play that positional game as well as we'd like, and also his competitiveness can appear inconsistent. I also think we don't rate his disposal, in that as MJP has pointed out before he shies away from taking the riskier options we want our players to take. Cordy does it (loves an inboard kick on his left), Gardner obviously does.

    Young has attributes the others don't have (much better in the air mainly) but I don't think that is what we want first and foremost from our FB and I reckon ability to stick to the gameplan is rated number one on our board and Young comes across as the least capable of doing that of the three.

    Fwiw I very much agree with everyone else that I would like to see him given a run of games in Gardners absence if the other option is just stick Zaine back there, but Young always comes across to me like a 15 year old kid playing footy with his mates where he relies more on raw ability than playing his role. If thats the same pov the coaches have then no wonder he can't get a game.
    I should leave it alone but you're not right

  22. #104
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 8 Vs Carlton 2021

    I'd be playing Young way more in seniors, he needs a solid run at it like Gardner, hell I'd like to play Keith/Gardner/Young all in the same backline, with Williams, Dale and Duryea, move Daniel up forward so he can do his neat-little kicks into the forward 50 as opposed to off halfback.
    "Its always good to win the Ashes test match'' - Libba, AFL Grand Final, 2016

  23. #105
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    Re: Always Right Match Committee - Round 8 Vs Carlton 2021

    Might be some truth to that soup (and others above), but can you imagine if Young played a game where his opponent took 12 marks? He'd probably be sent home to SA without pay.

    Young's best games - which include v Brisbane the week prior - are so far and above what Cordy has ever produced at the level.

    I agree with the sentiment on Gardiner and can 'see' why he's picked. Quick, disciplined, shown improvement etc. It's still debatable he's AFL quality long term.

    When Cordy's attributes are "he gives effort / he knows the gameplan / he can fly the flag" but has been statistically one of the worst 1-v-1 defenders in the league for some time, I don't get it. If he plays v Carlton I'm almost approaching Terry Wallet levels...

    RJ's rating system is pretty much spot on. I'd almost rather play JJ as a key defender, at least *if* he brought the ball to ground, he might be able to run it out/hurt on the rebound.*

    * Not serious, but you get my point.
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