Always Right Match Committee - Round 18 Vs Gold Coast Suns 2021

[bornadog]

Comrade keeps stealing what I'm gonna say (and quite well too) but I'm gonna persist anyway.

Boyd was a bad solution. He was a half hearted option out of necessity because we were paying him a shitload and he was a terrible forward. He was ok as a hitout negator, which is the only area he had English covered in (and even that English is improving at). Lets not pretend he was the solution to our ruck woes and it's only bad luck that we find ourselves in our current position.
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I am not saying he was the solution or whether it would have worked, I am saying that is what the list management was banking on.

List management did not just avoid not doing anything at all. Tom to ruck till English comes good and then use both as Ruck/fwds.

Whether it would have worked who knows, but Tom did pretty well in the ruck over the couple of years he played the role. Remembering he was only a young buck at the time, and both Boyd and English will/would of peaked mid 20s.

Well it was bad luck that Tom had mental Health issues and couldn't play.

[comrade]

Agree. I'm hoping that Martin more than being a viable option for us is more important as proof of concept. Getting him for his handful of games has shown that we can work (and be better) with an actual ruck supporting English and co. Martin is done, and at this rate is looking at retirement, but if we come away from his recruitment knowing we need to grab an actual ruck and finally follow through on that then his recruitment is a big win.

Yeah, that's the silver lining and I'm praying we learn the lesson and do something about it. The problem we face is that clubs are more aware than ever that rucks are critical to success - just look at how every young ruck talent available was hoovered up at the mid season draft. Other clubs also know its an area of weakness for us and won't easily let us resolve it without paying full price.

[Bulldog Joe]

Given what we have available, I would like to see Lewy Young do significant ruck stints.

He is competitive in the hitouts and can take a mark. He also has some mobility.

On VFL form Sweet has lost all confidence and getting smashed at the lower level, although he did have a presence forward.

Hard to believe he is the same player that got coaches votes against Paddy Ryder.

[Hotdog60]

Sweet is still learning the trade and I think he would benefit with playing senior football.
In our present situation I think if Martin isn't on the park Sweet is and hopefully Sweet will get better as he goes along.
At least Sweet will fill a gap until a better option comes along. If we are setting up to a loosing ruck then it doesn't matter how many hit outs he gets as long as he can nullify to some extent the opposition ruck.

[MrMahatma]

Why are people so keen to put time into Sweet cause “he’ll develop”, knowing he’s not up to it currently, yet fully write off English as a ruck option forever? So English can’t get better?

[comrade]

Why are people so keen to put time into Sweet cause “he’ll develop”, knowing he’s not up to it currently, yet fully write off English as a ruck option forever? So English can’t get better?

English has had years of development and still gets thrown around, unable to position himself correct at throw ins etc and has been given games throughout his career that he probably didn't deserve on merit. If English had developed into a quality AFL standard first ruck, we wouldn't be in this situation.

[GVGjr]

Tom Boyd was never going to be a primary ruckman capable of 70-80% game time in the ruck, even if he was fit. Even so, he was done years ago. We've had multiple off seasons and mid year drafts to bolster the area and the best we could come up with was a 34 year old at the very very tail end of his career.

In hindsight, we should have prioritised a mature ruckman over Bruce. We'd be a much more formidable team if we had a trustworthy ruckman than a hit and miss key forward.

If English is our #1 ruck come finals, we're not winning a flag, imo. If Sweet is #1 ruck, we probably aren't either. Sh*t situation to be in, to be honest.

Well before he retired Boyd had a very problematic issue with his back even seeking solutions overseas.
If we looked the other way with that challenge and if we secretly planned for him to be our number 1# ruck man ignoring his limitations (I highly doubt we did) Boyd himself was also unaware of it. I talked to him at a club function and he indicated he would very likely be a 70% forward and 30% ruck man.

He missed games in 2017 and 2018 with his back and was hampered by it and we were managing it as best we could so we knew it was a significant challenge and a potential risk.

I'm not sure how much longer we can keep speculating that Boyds retirement is the reason why we haven't been able to address the ruck position years later but to me it seems to be a convenient excuse.
But if the club is still using it as it's often as it's suggested here then it reminds of that old joke.

Q: What's the difference between the club using Tom Boyds retirement as an excuse and a cow?

A: The club has never milked a cow.

I think we just need to acknowledge that we had other priorities and rolled the dice and if we did plan for it then we ignored the signs that should have been evident.

[Rocco Jones]

English has had years of development and still gets thrown around, unable to position himself correct at throw ins etc and has been given games throughout his career that he probably didn't deserve on merit. If English had developed into a quality AFL standard first ruck, we wouldn't be in this situation.

Also, he looks really good as a forward.

[1eyedog]

Why are people so keen to put time into Sweet cause “he’ll develop”, knowing he’s not up to it currently, yet fully write off English as a ruck option forever? So English can’t get better?

Cause English has looked shit hot forward.

[Mantis]

Cause English has looked shit hot forward.

But has he really? He was really good against Brisbane, but he’s only been average at best in all other games when played predominantly as a forward.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

But has he really? He was really good against Brisbane, but he’s only been average at best in all other games when played predominantly as a forward.

I think when English plays forward he is a problem match up. His height and his ability are concerns for the opposition. Instead of naughts and Bruce getting the best two backman. When English is played forward T times he gets one of the best two and that allows the others to play on a smaller less equipped back.

I recon the match committee are thinking about what we lose in the ruck playing English forward vrs what we gain playing him forward. Fact is none of us would be having this conversation if both Dunks and His BBF were playing in the side.

[1eyedog]

But has he really? He was really good against Brisbane, but he’s only been average at best in all other games when played predominantly as a forward.

Yeah he's been a big threat every time one of Martin or Sweet play. The Brisbane game as you've noted and also very good against North (3) and our most dangerous forward against Melbourne (2) as well when we were smashed across the ground. Three really good games but unfortunately the sample size is still small due to either his concussion against GWS or Stef being injured. He's also kicked at least one goal and taken at least 8 marks every other time Stef has played. I'm certainly optimistic about the combination.

As BB says above there's additional benefits to playing English forward as well. IMO we have looked our most dangerous playing three tall forwards this year which we can afford to do due to Astro's ground game.

[westbulldog]

There is a tendency here to write off Sweet completely, I don't agree. With Sweet in there is a major benefit in freeing up English to go forward where he, Naughton and Bruce present a huge dilemna for anyone, yes May and Lever included. Sweet at least has a bit on mongrel and grunt, at worst our gun midfield roves to losing hitouts.
Young in a more stable defensive role (i.e Cordy out) could pinch hit in the ruck.

[The Adelaide Connection]

I can’t link the image (it always tells me I’ve exceeded my quota despite not having any uploads on file) but Bains has said we are taking 24-25 up to the GC. It was supposed to be an entire club trip but the VFL game has been cancelled. I’ve since seen photos showing JUH and Dunkley have gone.

[Hotdog60]

The AFL have postponed the VFL giving the sides a bye this week instead of next week