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  1. #1
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    Western Bulldogs vs Melbourne 2021 analysis

    So this is more of an “open up to the audience piece”.

    We played them twice this year. The first meeting was a nightmare for us. We were generally poor all around. Poor skills, poor positioning and poor decision making. Some of this was created by the way melbourne played us. They allowed us space down back and forced us wide to kick to contests where Lever and May could pick the ball off. They wanted us to switch on the narrower Etihad ground. They also pressured the outlet option at contests, rather than attacking the ball carrier which blocked our typical handball game.

    Now I missed the second meeting. We got the win, but what did we change to reverse our fortunes? Was it more than simply playing better? (I’m assuming yes). How much did the rain influence the result? What worked for us and what do we need to do to beat them in two weeks?

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    Re: Western Bulldogs vs Melbourne 2021 analysis

    In the second game we won the free kick count 25-11 which was the main reason why we won that game.

    Haven't had Dunks, Treloar or Martin in either game which gives us a different look.

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    Re: Western Bulldogs vs Melbourne 2021 analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by Mantis View Post
    In the second game we won the free kick count 25-11 which was the main reason why we won that game.

    Haven't had Dunks, Treloar or Martin in either game which gives us a different look.
    Did we tweak our structure/gameplan in our second meeting?

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    Re: Western Bulldogs vs Melbourne 2021 analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldogsthru&thru View Post
    Did we tweak our structure/gameplan in our second meeting?
    We structured up differently in the back half in our 2nd clash by adding a 3rd tall (Schache) to the mix which no doubt helped our cause, especially given Keath went off early with an injury. It must also be stated that in our Rd 11 clash Cordy spent a large amount of time on Fritsch which meant our other medium sized defenders had to play tall given McDonald, Weidemann & Jackson were all on the ground at times.

    We butchered the ball early on as bad as we have all year in Rd11 which gifted Melb goal scoring opportunities and will likely have 8 different players in the team for the GF compared to Rd 11 so not sure that game is all that relevant.

    Given the game is still 2 weeks away I'm sure we will all re-watch the games played earlier in the year and provide a bit more analysis then... but for now we just savor that we've made it.

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    Re: Western Bulldogs vs Melbourne 2021 analysis

    I just checked the last seven quarters, after that horrible first one of the first game. Plus Gawn destroyed Sweet which has seemed to destroy Sweet since then. In the balance of the last three quarters we only feel one point further behind. We won by 20 points in the second game. So our last seven quarters against them this year, we’ve done well against them/not blown away. So when we are switched on, we can handle their systems and their game plan. We can defend against them and score against them and not get bullied by the dominant ruck and big mids. In that second game we did it without Keath (from early on), Martin (allowing now English to second ruck and play forward & Schache not to Second ruck), Treloar & Dunkley.

    No one in media land will dig into the weeds like this thread will. But there’s plenty of improvement in our squad to face them, since we beat them on their home ground.
    Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

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  9. #6
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    Re: Western Bulldogs vs Melbourne 2021 analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldogtragic View Post
    I just checked the last seven quarters, after that horrible first one of the first game. Plus Gawn destroyed Sweet which has seemed to destroy Sweet since then. In the balance of the last three quarters we only feel one point further behind. We won by 20 points in the second game. So our last seven quarters against them this year, we’ve done well against them/not blown away. So when we are switched on, we can handle their systems and their game plan. We can defend against them and score against them and not get bullied by the dominant ruck and big mids. In that second game we did it without Keath (from early on), Martin (allowing now English to second ruck and play forward & Schache not to Second ruck), Treloar & Dunkley.

    No one in media land will dig into the weeds like this thread will. But there’s plenty of improvement in our squad to face them, since we beat them on their home ground.
    The first quarter we gave up so many easy goals by turning over the ball in our back 50. Dale had a shocker, kicking the ball to Melbourne, Libba kicked across the ground straight to a Melbourne player. I think I counted 4 bad turnovers that gave Melbourne direct shots at goal.

    As you say, after that there was just 1 point in it for the remainder of the game.
    FFC: Established 1883

    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

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  11. #7
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    Re: Western Bulldogs vs Melbourne 2021 analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    The first quarter we gave up so many easy goals by turning over the ball in our back 50. Dale had a shocker, kicking the ball to Melbourne, Libba kicked across the ground straight to a Melbourne player. I think I counted 4 bad turnovers that gave Melbourne direct shots at goal.

    As you say, after that there was just 1 point in it for the remainder of the game.
    They were bad turnovers, but credit also has to go to Melbourne for the way they set up the ground that night. We wouldn't have tried to switch so desperately if we had better options up field. They also peeled off and forced us to get the ball to Cordy way more than we'd want, slowing our movement down and limiting our ability to exit cleanly.

    We rectified that in the 2nd outing and turned it into a more chaotic, ground ball game (weather helped). Caleb was incredible that night with his clean hands and vision. We'll need to do something similar next week.
    Our 1954 premiership players are our heroes, and it has to be said that Charlie was their hero.

  12. #8
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    Re: Western Bulldogs vs Melbourne 2021 analysis

    Note Martin's ankle injury

    ‘Be offensive’: Ruck great’s wise words to Martin ahead of Gawn battle

    https://www.smh.com.au/sport/afl/be-...13-p58r7g.html


    Jon PierikSeptember 13, 2021 — 4.55pm

    The only ruckman to win a North Smith Medal has advised Stefan Martin to not forget his own offensive game when he seeks to tame Melbourne star Max Gawn in the AFL grand final.

    Simon Madden, the Essendon champion who torched Hawthorn in the 1985 grand final, said Martin, the robust Western Bulldog, had a key role to play against a man who will be one of the favourites to claim the esteemed individual prize come Saturday week at Optus Stadium.

    Stefan Martin is poised to go head-to-head with former Demons teammate Max Gawn in the grand final.
    Stefan Martin is poised to go head-to-head with former Demons teammate Max Gawn in the grand final.Credit:AFL Photos
    Martin, returning from a groin injury and in only his eighth game of the season, was pivotal in Saturday night’s victory over Port Adelaide but now faces an enormous challenge against Gawn, who had the game of his life against Geelong last Friday with 33 hit outs, 19 disposals and five goals.

    “You have got to try and negate him [Gawn] as much as you can. It’s got to be really heavy body work. He does that, he knows how to do that really heavy body work, so over time you wear him down,” Madden said.

    Max Gawn is in imposing form for the Demons at the most important stage of the season.
    Max Gawn is in imposing form for the Demons at the most important stage of the season.Credit:Getty Images
    “But, also, if I was his ruck coach or his coach, I would be saying, depending on the team rules, anytime you get to run off him and get the ball, you put pressure the other way. If he doesn’t have to worry about you, he can run his own game. If he has to worry about you, his mind is split in two places.

    “So, if you run around, get your opportunity to get a possession. It’s always that balance of defence and offence but, sometimes, you can worry about the bloke and not be offensive.”

    Gawn’s ability to go forward and create trouble has been on show all season, including when the skipper marked and booted the match-winning goal after the final siren against the Cats in round 23. He has 16 goals this season; Martin, his good friend and former Melbourne teammate, has only one in his first, and perhaps only, season at the Whitten Oval before retirement.

    Regardless, Martin’s importance to the Dogs cannot be underestimated, given they have won seven of the eight matches he has played, the only loss being to Richmond in round seven.

    While they did have an 11-6 win-loss record without him, a peak below the hood shows why they are structurally better with the 34-year-old making his presence felt.

    When Martin has played, they have averaged 97.1 points per game, up from 88.1 without him. He also allows Tim English to spend more time forward as a marking tall, an important role since Josh Bruce was lost to a knee injury. The emergence of Josh Schache in recent weeks alongside Aaron Naughton should ensure Demons defenders Steven May, Harrison Petty and Jake Lever will be held accountable.

    While the Bulldogs are still negative in terms of hitout differential, it is not as imbalanced when Martin is there. Critically, the Dogs’ scores from stoppages differential lifts from +5.8 to +14.9, as the midfield fleet gets busy. No wonder coach Luke Beveridge said on Friday his midfielders had regularly been asking when Martin would return.

    Through the season the Dogs are also marginally better in centre-clearance differential when Martin is in the team, but Saturday’s seven-goal-to-one first term underlined his true value.

    “The first goal they kicked tonight was Stef Martin winning the first centre bounce, getting it down to Bont (Marcus Bontempelli), getting it long, Bailey Smith kicks the goal,” Bulldogs’ great Brad Johnson told Fox Footy.

    “That’s the importance of a Stef Martin now going into grand final day against Max Gawn, because all of a sudden their confidence is back in centre bounces, where that was the one part of their game that was being questioned.”

    Martin rolled his ankle on Saturday but had the joint re-strapped and returned to the field. It’s been a frustrating year of injury for the grizzled 14-year veteran, who had spent his previous eight seasons with Brisbane. But, as Beveridge said, one thing is assured come selection on Thursday week.

    “If he is alright in two weeks, absolutely, he will be playing in the grand final if he is physically OK, no doubt,” Beveridge said.
    The fight is here; I need ammunition, not a ride.

  13. #9
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    Re: Western Bulldogs vs Melbourne 2021 analysis

    Doesn’t sound too serious if he played the game out with 14 days of physio or other treatment between games. With the margin we had almost all game, you’d expect he wouldn’t have gone on and stayed on for 68% of the game.
    Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

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    Re: Western Bulldogs vs Melbourne 2021 analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldogtragic View Post
    I just checked the last seven quarters, after that horrible first one of the first game. Plus Gawn destroyed Sweet which has seemed to destroy Sweet since then. In the balance of the last three quarters we only feel one point further behind. We won by 20 points in the second game. So our last seven quarters against them this year, we’ve done well against them/not blown away. So when we are switched on, we can handle their systems and their game plan. We can defend against them and score against them and not get bullied by the dominant ruck and big mids. In that second game we did it without Keath (from early on), Martin (allowing now English to second ruck and play forward & Schache not to Second ruck), Treloar & Dunkley.

    No one in media land will dig into the weeds like this thread will. But there’s plenty of improvement in our squad to face them, since we beat them on their home ground.
    On top of that for both teams personnel, I just compared the team sheets in R19 to our expected GF 23:

    Their side has one change in since we beat them, Sparrow & Jordan swapped bench for sub. So same, same.

    Our side has five changes in since we beat them, Keath (99%), Gardner, Martin, Dunkley & Treloar. (Cordy, Richards who got concussion and stayed off, Scott, Garcia, Marra, Bruce)

    We beat them on their home deck. They’re virtually the same. We’ve got incoming our best defender, an agile, quicker taller defender, our best ruck, two gun midfielders who can play inside and outside and kick goals. Plus swinging Schache forward and much more time forward for English as a positional changes covering Bruce & Marra not being there. Richards stayed off a good chunk of the second half which obviously hurt our rotations. Hopefully we don’t have two out either nearly the whole game or half. So there’s hopefully a gain in productivity here too.

    I think we come at them much, much stronger than when we last met. Sparrow/Jordan isn’t a material difference. It might only be on paper at this point, but we are a superior group of talent this time around. I wonder when someone in media land compares the team sheets and sees this?
    Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

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    Re: Western Bulldogs vs Melbourne 2021 analysis

    Missing players impact:


    Neither Dunkley or Treloar played against the demons in either match this year. Let’s look at their impact over the last 3 weeks:


    Prelim:


    Dunks: 22 disposals, 8 tackles


    Treloar: 23 disposals, 1 goal, 9 tackles


    Semi final:


    Dunks: 21 disposals, 7 tackles


    Treloar: 10 disposals, 5 tackles


    Elimination final:


    Dunks: 14 disposals, 3 tackles


    Treloar: 28 disposals, 5 tackles


    That’s what gives me hope. We gain a decent amount of disposals a week with those two in, and over a solid amount of tackles a game. In addition, Dunkley is now tagging. Kept parish quiet after half time and went onto Neale in the semi-final and did a great job. Dunks and Treloar love playing together, and it really lifts the group. Those two in the team means we bat very deep in our midfield rotations. Consider this:


    Martin/English, Bont, Macrae, Libba, Smith, Dunks, Treloar, Hunter


    Against:


    Gawn/Jackson, Oliver, Petracca, Viney, Harmes, Brayshaw, Langdon, Sparrow


    In week 1 against Brisbane, Oliver (84%) Petracca (90%) had high time on ground. Their wingers spent even more time on the ground in that game. Brayshaw (86%) and Langdon (100%). This seems to be a common trend for Melbourne across the season: They play with the same players in the same positions, nearly all game.


    Where we can get them is running through fresh units of players throughout the match. The reason we can be successful here and other teams can’t is that our other rotations still involve quality players. When Petracca and Oliver eventually do need a rest, and if that ever combines with Jackson being in the ruck, look our Dees!


    In terms of Jackson, he doesn’t have a huge tank. Only spent 68% time on ground against the Lions. When English comes up against him in the ruck when Martin needs a rest, we can gain an advantage here.


    Martin being in is absolutely enormous for us. From a planning perspective, it just throws the Dees off, as will our Dunks and Treloar inclusions. You can see them play on TV all you want, it’s not the same as playing against them in person as a collective. Melbourne hasn’t.


    Flexibility will be the reason we win this match. Fresh players wearing breaking down the Melbourne wall, brick by brick. Martin giving our midfield a fighting chance, and not allowing Gawn to do as he pleases.


    Yield to none. This is the Doggies time, 2021!
    Last edited by Rhys; 16-09-2021 at 10:13 AM.

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  17. #12
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    Re: Western Bulldogs vs Melbourne 2021 analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhys View Post
    Missing players impact:


    Neither Dunkley or Treloar played against the demons in either match this year. Let’s look at their impact over the last 3 weeks:


    Prelim:


    Dunks: 22 disposals, 8 tackles


    Treloar: 23 disposals, 1 goal, 9 tackles


    Semi final:


    Dunks: 21 disposals, 7 tackles


    Treloar: 10 disposals, 5 tackles


    Elimination final:


    Dunks: 14 disposals, 3 tackles


    Treloar: 28 disposals, 5 tackles


    That’s what gives me hope. We gain around 40ish disposals a week with those two in, and over 10 tackles a game. In addition, Dunkley is now tagging. Kept parish quiet after half time and went onto Neale in the semi-final and did a great job. Dunks and Treloar love playing together, and it really lifts the group. Those two in the team means we bat very deep in our midfield rotations. Consider this:


    Martin/English, Bont, Macrae, Libba, Smith, Dunks, Treloar, Hunter


    Against:


    Gawn/Jackson, Oliver, Petracca, Viney, Harmes, Brayshaw, Langdon, Sparrow


    In week 1 against Brisbane, Oliver (84%) Petracca (90%) had high time on ground. Their wingers spent even more time on the ground in that game. Brayshaw (86%) and Langdon (100%). This seems to be a common trend for Melbourne across the season: They play with the same players in the same positions, nearly all game.


    Where we can get them is running through fresh units of players throughout the match. The reason we can be successful here and other teams can’t is that our other rotations still involve quality players. When Petracca and Oliver eventually do need a rest, and if that ever combines with Jackson being in the ruck, look our Dees!


    In terms of Jackson, he doesn’t have a huge tank. Only spent 68% time on ground against the Lions. When English comes up against him in the ruck when Martin needs a rest, we can gain an advantage here.


    Martin being in is absolutely enormous for us. From a planning perspective, it just throws the Dees off, as will our Dunks and Treloar inclusions. You can see them play on TV all you want, it’s not the same as playing against them in person as a collective. Melbourne hasn’t.


    Flexibility will be the reason we win this match. Fresh players wearing breaking down the Melbourne wall, brick by brick. Martin giving our midfield a fighting chance, and not allowing Gawn to do as he pleases.


    Yield to none. This is the Doggies time, 2021!
    Well this has me across the line.

  18. #13
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    Re: Western Bulldogs vs Melbourne 2021 analysis

    There is no doubt that we have improved personnel from both meetings in the H & A

    Also we are the team that improves the personnel from the PF with the addition of Keath and Weightman.

    Melbourne have had an amazing absence of injury throughout the year, but we are actually closer to full list availability for the GF than for any other game all year.
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    Re: Western Bulldogs vs Melbourne 2021 analysis

    If we make Brayshaw accountable, we win. Simple as that.

    If he's accountable we get the chance to switch the ball and run it. It helps us play the game at our pace. If we play slow, May & Lever will beat us with intercepts.

    We can't forget Melbourne are peaking at the right time and a formidable side. Libba will be tagged heavily so the midfield group needs to be prepared for that.
    Western Bulldogs: 2016 Premiers

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    Re: Western Bulldogs vs Melbourne 2021 analysis

    https://player.whooshkaa.com/whateley?episode=904788

    Amazing analysis of both our meetings with the Dees this year from David King, Craig Jennings and Gerard Whateley. Absolutely worth a listen to. Didn’t realise that Melbourne won the contested possessions count both times against us. You would think Dunks back (Especially if he tags) and Treloar will change that somewhat.

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