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  1. #766
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    Re: Melbourne V Western Bulldogs - 2021 Grand Final Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bulldogs Bite View Post
    The fact it has happened SO many times, and now on the biggest stage of them all when we were 19 up .... I mean, where to from here?

    The lessons have not been learned.

    I think this is why I feel a sense of helplessness for this list moving forward, even though it's still a good list.

    The ruck situation is bad, we know. But it's more than that. Is it coaching? Is it personnel? Is it both?
    For those of us who have consistently questioned of the clubs decisions in a very detailed manner on things like the playing personnel, the balance of the list and of course team selections or coaching philosophies etc we are often get criticised by some of the WOOF members who strongly believe there isn't too much wrong and the club knows best.
    I'm starting to think more with swing around now and start questioning some of the same issues many of us have been raising for a few years.

    As an example the ruck set-up needs complete review.
    Can we continue to build around English or not?
    Would the likes of Ceglar or Ladhams make us more competitive and how much faith do we have in Sweet?

    I get that many see this sort of questioning as having a go at the club but as I said in the Lets make the hard calls thread we need to examine where are we actually as a club.
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

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  3. #767
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    Re: Melbourne V Western Bulldogs - 2021 Grand Final Thread

    Ive been one questioning the club this year and the last 5 seasons. But I thought I had it wrong after the last 4 weeks. But everything has been resurrected on the back of last night. Not because we lost. But how we lost. All those issues were on full display on the biggest game. That soft underbelly was there again. For a GF. There is no excuse for it. None. Unforgivable.

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  5. #768
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    Re: Melbourne V Western Bulldogs - 2021 Grand Final Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by GVGjr View Post
    For those of us who have consistently questioned of the clubs decisions in a very detailed manner on things like the playing personnel, the balance of the list and of course team selections or coaching philosophies etc we are often get criticised by some of the WOOF members who strongly believe there isn't too much wrong and the club knows best.
    I'm starting to think more with swing around now and start questioning some of the same issues many of us have been raising for a few years.

    As an example the ruck set-up needs complete review.
    Can we continue to build around English or not?
    Would the likes of Ceglar or Ladhams make us more competitive and how much faith do we have in Sweet?

    I get that many see this sort of questioning as having a go at the club but as I said the Lets make the hard calls thread we need to examine where are we actually as a club.
    To be fair, when you're 19 points up halfway through the 3rd in a GF and have kicked 8 of the last 9 after a slow start, you'd think we do have most areas covered. In that 10 minute patch to finish the 3rd, their 2nd stringer ruckman completely demolished ours and their mids went to work in the most ruthless way imaginable. Perhaps Melbourne understood that the 2nd ruck role could be an area that gives them a clear point of difference from the rest of the competition, and it sure did last night.

    Our mid set up does have a sameness about it as well, which prevents us from getting the really clean looks inside 50 that Melbourne got in that game-changing run. Cotchin was a ball magnet and changed his game to suit - do we have such a player willing to sacrifice their natural ball-winning for better team balance and the greater good? Similarly, I think Brayshaw moving to a defensive wing role was an absolute master-stroke that paid enormous dividends on the biggest stage last night. Is Macrae that player for us?
    "Look at me mate. Look at me. I'm flyin'"

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  7. #769
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    Re: Melbourne V Western Bulldogs - 2021 Grand Final Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bulldogsthru&thru View Post
    Oh is that all…..ok doesn’t explain the poor showing then.
    No and he didn't use it as an excuse. They tried to push that but Bevo didn't sell it.

  8. #770
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    Re: Melbourne V Western Bulldogs - 2021 Grand Final Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The Pie Man View Post
    When I post this, know I believe we should’ve been better from this point on, but….

    Brayshaw’s goal in the 3rd : Weightman was both held and ridden into the ground without the ball by Pickett, massive miss from the ump

    Still can’t believe Brayshaw wasn’t pinged for either high or ITB on Schache.

    Crucial in the 3rd quarter momentum.

    Last few minutes of the 3rd, Jackson was impressive in the ruck - but the ball was still in dispute there, and our mids just couldn’t win out.
    Yeah. The whistles went away a bit there and it didn’t help us. The Schache one was horrid. No eyes for the ball at all and just cannoned into him well late. It bordered on reportable.

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  10. #771
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    Re: Melbourne V Western Bulldogs - 2021 Grand Final Thread

    One area we didn't do enough to exploit was Steven May. We would have known he was borderline cooked and we needed to clear the 50 and isolate him one out with Naughts and instruct him to repeat lead up and back. We pop his string early and they have to reshuffle their area of strength and throw their plans into disarray. Naughts has really struggled previously against the Dees and he was a bit of a non-factor again last night.

    We scored 9 times from 11 entries in the 2nd qtr. Melbourne were vulnerable down back really for the first time all season. We didn't capitalise enough on our dominance in the first 15 mins of the 3rd. Getting the margin to 4-5 goals would have been telling and made for a different last 40 mins.
    "Look at me mate. Look at me. I'm flyin'"

  11. #772
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    Re: Melbourne V Western Bulldogs - 2021 Grand Final Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The Pie Man View Post
    When I post this, know I believe we should’ve been better from this point on, but….

    Brayshaw’s goal in the 3rd : Weightman was both held and ridden into the ground without the ball by Pickett, massive miss from the ump

    Still can’t believe Brayshaw wasn’t pinged for either high or ITB on Schache.

    Crucial in the 3rd quarter momentum.

    Last few minutes of the 3rd, Jackson was impressive in the ruck - but the ball was still in dispute there, and our mids just couldn’t win out.
    Sliding door moments..... Luke Breust in the 2016 semi, finals are littered with them.

    I was thinking a Bont & Bevo dynasty after his third, still cant get a handle of how it changed so quickly.

    We have a young group that can benefit from a loss like this, lets see how they respond next year.

  12. #773
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    Re: Melbourne V Western Bulldogs - 2021 Grand Final Thread

    It hasn't gotten any better having drowned my sorrows.

    There was a centre clearance they won during their run in the third that summed up our weakness, where Libba was the defencive/ last mid and he went all out attack on a ball he was maybe a 30-40% chance of winning when the right thing to do was hold, wrap up and create a stoppage. We then get to roll numbers up, create congestion and go again.

    And for me that's the trend that kills us when teams get a run on over us. The inability of the same midfield group to adjust to the conditions and just let it walk out does my head in.

    I struggle to think it's a coaching issue because it's so obvious, but if it's obvious to me and the coaches, then it should also be obvious to the players.......so perhaps it's something closer to arrogance. I really don't know.
    Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.

  13. #774
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    Re: Melbourne V Western Bulldogs - 2021 Grand Final Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jeemak View Post
    It hasn't gotten any better having drowned my sorrows.

    There was a centre clearance they won during their run in the third that summed up our weakness, where Libba was the defencive/ last mid and he went all out attack on a ball he was maybe a 30-40% chance of winning when the right thing to do was hold, wrap up and create a stoppage. We then get to roll numbers up, create congestion and go again.

    And for me that's the trend that kills us when teams get a run on over us. The inability of the same midfield group to adjust to the conditions and just let it walk out does my head in.

    I struggle to think it's a coaching issue because it's so obvious, but if it's obvious to me and the coaches, then it should also be obvious to the players.......so perhaps it's something closer to arrogance. I really don't know.
    Completely agree. We seem to love the high stakes "either we get a great clearance or they do" game. Next year i really want to see us adjust to just lockin that shit down and grinding it out at times. They had all the momentum at the end of the third and we tried to stop it by winning, when a nil all draw would have sufficed. Again the example i keep using is when Treloar gets it on his knees and instead of holding it in and forcing a stoppage he tries this low percentage handball thats instantly turns over.
    I should leave it alone but you're not right

  14. #775
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    Re: Melbourne V Western Bulldogs - 2021 Grand Final Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by soupman View Post
    Completely agree. We seem to love the high stakes "either we get a great clearance or they do" game. Next year i really want to see us adjust to just lockin that shit down and grinding it out at times. They had all the momentum at the end of the third and we tried to stop it by winning, when a nil all draw would have sufficed. Again the example i keep using is when Treloar gets it on his knees and instead of holding it in and forcing a stoppage he tries this low percentage handball thats instantly turns over.
    Good example. A holding the ball free kick is better than a turnover in that instance.
    Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.

  15. #776
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    Re: Melbourne V Western Bulldogs - 2021 Grand Final Thread

    I can’t get my head around this glaring weakness. It seems so obvious. Where does the problem lie? Seriously if this is just on the players not responding, I’ve got to say it’s a very bad sign. Because they’ve had so many chances to rectify it and still haven’t. And if they can’t manage to put their egos aside for a bloody grand final then it’ll never happen and we need to ship some guys out and bring in others who are willing to do it. Has to be more to it but I can’t put my finger on it. It’s a real mystery.

  16. #777
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    Re: Melbourne V Western Bulldogs - 2021 Grand Final Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jeemak View Post
    Good example. A holding the ball free kick is better than a turnover in that instance.
    Not sure if this is meant to be sarcastic but I've taken it as construnctive criticism in that form.

    I watched it back, Treloar definitely tried a low percentage play that i would prefer he didn't. I think the bigger issue though was that only Libba remained defensive side, English and Bont both pushed forward from the bounce which meant that Treloars handball backwards only had Libba as an option and no defensive cover if it didn't work (which his what happened).

    Definitely we needed to take a more defensive mindset on that bounce (and we did on the next one and just managed to neutralize it).
    I should leave it alone but you're not right

  17. #778
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    Re: Melbourne V Western Bulldogs - 2021 Grand Final Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by soupman View Post
    Completely agree. We seem to love the high stakes "either we get a great clearance or they do" game. Next year i really want to see us adjust to just lockin that shit down and grinding it out at times. They had all the momentum at the end of the third and we tried to stop it by winning, when a nil all draw would have sufficed. Again the example i keep using is when Treloar gets it on his knees and instead of holding it in and forcing a stoppage he tries this low percentage handball thats instantly turns over.
    Those 3 clearances what killed us . I got nervous seeing treloar as inside mid and my instinct was right when they got the turn over and burst out of the middle

  18. #779
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    Re: Melbourne V Western Bulldogs - 2021 Grand Final Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by soupman View Post
    Not sure if this is meant to be sarcastic but I've taken it as construnctive criticism in that form.

    I watched it back, Treloar definitely tried a low percentage play that i would prefer he didn't. I think the bigger issue though was that only Libba remained defensive side, English and Bont both pushed forward from the bounce which meant that Treloars handball backwards only had Libba as an option and no defensive cover if it didn't work (which his what happened).

    Definitely we needed to take a more defensive mindset on that bounce (and we did on the next one and just managed to neutralize it).
    Dont think it’s sarcastic. Holding the ball at least halts play for a bit.

  19. #780
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    Re: Melbourne V Western Bulldogs - 2021 Grand Final Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by soupman View Post
    Not sure if this is meant to be sarcastic but I've taken it as construnctive criticism in that form.

    I watched it back, Treloar definitely tried a low percentage play that i would prefer he didn't. I think the bigger issue though was that only Libba remained defensive side, English and Bont both pushed forward from the bounce which meant that Treloars handball backwards only had Libba as an option and no defensive cover if it didn't work (which his what happened).

    Definitely we needed to take a more defensive mindset on that bounce (and we did on the next one and just managed to neutralize it).
    Not sarcasm or putting shit on your point. Instead of giving it to them in a low percentage play you’re better off rolling the dice with an umpire call, and then delay handing the ball over after a wrestle to at least slow it down if you do get pinged.
    Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.

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