Lets make the hard calls

[kruder]

Another Bailey?? That would surely mess with the space time continuum!!!

The more the better I reckon, love them all.

[LostDog]

Sounds like there's no fear of losing English with his mrs playing netball in WA,
Why did we no go hard after Tarant, geez even Majak would of been low risk high reward

[Scraggers]

Martin was working with them as a mentor during the season.

We need more than a mentor. A legitimate ruck coach is what is required if we are going with Young and English is 2022 and beyond.

[1eyedog]

We need more than a mentor. A legitimate ruck coach is what is required if we are going with Young and English is 2022 and beyond.

Steven King has been in control of the mids and has been here forever prior to taking on a new role with the Suns. Was one of the best ruckman in the comp when at Geelong.

Young is too small and English is too timid in the role. Need a real ruckman.

[Danjul]

Steven King has been in control of the mids and has been here forever prior to taking on a new role with the Suns. Was one of the best ruckman in the comp when at Geelong.

Young is too small and English is too timid in the role. Need a real ruckman.

I agree, We certainly need a real ruckman. Young isn’t up for the number one ruckman position.

Young is 1cm shorter than Jackson and 10 kg heavier. As second ruck Jackson turned the game in the GF. As second ruck Young should be able to improve our options.

[Scraggers]

Steven King has been in control of the mids and has been here forever prior to taking on a new role with the Suns. Was one of the best ruckman in the comp when at Geelong.

Young is too small and English is too timid in the role. Need a real ruckman.

No doubt he was a good ruckman, but was he a good ruck coach? Watching the Sutton Medal last night, Bont, Macrae, Libba all thanked King for helping their game. But can he/ did he coach a ruckman?? I’m not in the inner workings (nor do I know anyone that is) I couldn’t tell you if he could coach a ruckman.

[1eyedog]

No doubt he was a good ruckman, but was he a good ruck coach? Watching the Sutton Medal last night, Bont, Macrae, Libba all thanked King for helping their game. But can he/ did he coach a ruckman?? I’m not in the inner workings (nor do I know anyone that is) I couldn’t tell you if he could coach a ruckman.

You raise a good point and I have no idea mate. He's a good coach and was a good ruckman is all I've got to go on.

[GVGjr]

I’ll agree to disagree regarding English.

Is our real need a ruck coach. A proper ruck artist who can teach Sweet to be the number one ruck and English number two. I know we had King as our midfield coach, but are we better off investing in both a midfield coach and a ruck coach.

He's been at the club for 5 years and this is a harsh reflection on how we value the role.
Got rid on Minson when Tim arrived, 2 years later Campbell and Roughead gone with just a rookie in Sweet and JT who was more of a spare parts player than genuine ruck man before adding Martin.
We have clearly not invested the time and effort in developing English into being a premier ruck man.

[Axe Man]

We have clearly not invested the effort in developing English into being a premier ruck man

I must be missing something, how is this clear? From the outside it appears to me up until this year we have been all chips in on developing Tim as our number 1 ruck. Given Tim's lack of progression in the role we decided to get some support for him this year and my guess is most people have supported that move. Despite spending much more time forward this year how do we know we still haven't been trying to develop Tim's ruckwork?

[bornadog]

He's been at the club for 5 years and this is a harsh reflection on how we value the role.
Got rid on Minson when Tim arrived, 2 years later Campbell and Roughead gone with just a rookie in Sweet and JT who was more of a spare parts player than genuine ruck man before adding Martin.
We have clearly not invested the time and effort in developing English into being a premier ruck man.

Not sure why you keep ignoring Tom Boyd - retired early 2019

I must be missing something, how is this clear? From the outside it appears to me up until this year we have been all chips in on developing Tim as our number 1 ruck. Given Tim's lack of progression in the role we decided to get some support for him this year and my guess is most people have supported that move. Despite spending much more time forward this year how do we know we still haven't been trying to develop Tim's ruckwork?

I agree. I don't get the talk that Bevo doesn't value the ruck role? From what I have seen he prefers a mobile ruckman.

Minson - great tap ruck but did nothing around the ground, and was coming to end of career anyway.
Campbell - not up to it, had plenty of chances
Roughead - ok, but his ruck work was disguised by third man up.
Boyd - Mental health issues, but I think would have been great with Tim.

We were clearly caught out with Tom retiring and Tim hasn't progressed as much as we thought he would. WE tried to make up by getting Sweet in and last year we had no hope because we recruited Bruce and Keath so had no way to get another ruck. We still had Trengove, but he was passed his best. Steph was what was available for this year.

Tim is the type of tall that matures slowly.

[soupman]

We have clearly not invested the time and effort in developing English into being a premier ruck man.

Whilst I suspect your reasoning for this line is much more nuanced this reads very much like the lazy media line that "the Bulldogs have not given English enough opportunities to succeed in the ruck role" when the truth is comfortably the opposite. We certainly haven't set him up to succeed through the help of other competent ruckmen, but he has certainly had almost too much faith placed in him and his ruck abilities.

I agree. I don't get the talk that Bevo doesn't value the ruck role? From what I have seen he prefers a mobile ruckman.

It isn't that he doesn't value rucks, he clearly values a mobile ruck who contributes around the ground very highly. The issue is that failing that he would rather not pick a ruck at all.

We were clearly caught out with Tom retiring and Tim hasn't progressed as much as we thought he would. WE tried to make up by getting Sweet in and last year we had no hope because we recruited Bruce and Keath so had no way to get another ruck. We still had Trengove, but he was passed his best. Steph was what was available for this year.

We have gone into the last two seasons making a pretty big gamble that English would "progress as we thought he would", when prior to each campaign he has shown very little to indicate he is ready or capable of nailing that role full time. That's fine except our backup plans were 2020-nothing, 2021-a ruckman that was cooked.

Sweet was brought in as a long term plan, I'd guess that we didn't envisage him playing in his first two seasons with us.

Yes we got Bruce and Keath in but nothing was stopping us trying to get something else of at least "solid enough to call upon" quality.

I'm sure we are trying to attract players, but not getting anybody except for a well-done Martin would indicate to me that we aren't trying hard enough.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Martin was recruited 4 years too late and now in his mid 30’s and injury prone is a big risk. Tim English hasn’t improved as a ruck man in 4 years and is better suited as a key forward.
Sweet was a Premiership ruck man in the SANFL but has obviously fallen out of favour.
Young does have potential but desperately needs more game time in the ruck.
The dominance of Gawn and Jackson in their demolition of both WB and Geelong in the finals to be a key factor in their Premiership win proves how far we have slipped in this key area.

[1eyedog]

Young exploring options, Sweet getting courted by rival clubs and Martin Cooked. Hope Sam has had a plan cooking.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/682678?f...S2t0a2M_75JRtA

[GVGjr]

I must be missing something, how is this clear? From the outside it appears to me up until this year we have been all chips in on developing Tim as our number 1 ruck. Given Tim's lack of progression in the role we decided to get some support for him this year and my guess is most people have supported that move. Despite spending much more time forward this year how do we know we still haven't been trying to develop Tim's ruckwork?

No ruck coach, minimal support has resulted in a talent who is somewhat stalling in his development.
Even before Bruce was injured we had moved him into more of a forward role.

[GVGjr]

Whilst I suspect your reasoning for this line is much more nuanced this reads very much like the lazy media line that "the Bulldogs have not given English enough opportunities to succeed in the ruck role" when the truth is comfortably the opposite. We certainly haven't set him up to succeed through the help of other competent ruckmen, but he has certainly had almost too much faith placed in him and his ruck abilities.



It isn't that he doesn't value rucks, he clearly values a mobile ruck who contributes around the ground very highly. The issue is that failing that he would rather not pick a ruck at all.




We have gone into the last two seasons making a pretty big gamble that English would "progress as we thought he would", when prior to each campaign he has shown very little to indicate he is ready or capable of nailing that role full time. That's fine except our backup plans were 2020-nothing, 2021-a ruckman that was cooked.

Sweet was brought in as a long term plan, I'd guess that we didn't envisage him playing in his first two seasons with us.

Yes we got Bruce and Keath in but nothing was stopping us trying to get something else of at least "solid enough to call upon" quality.

I'm sure we are trying to attract players, but not getting anybody except for a well-done Martin would indicate to me that we aren't trying hard enough.

Playing opportunity is the main thing we have given him but we also ran him into the ground along the way because he's had minimal support.

Regarding Martin, it was a low level investment that hasn't quite worked out.