‘The only club I wouldn’t put my hand up for right now’: Why Hawks legend Cyril Rioli has stayed away

[hujsh]

Racial issues aside...quite a strange hobby.

[angelopetraglia]

Racial issues aside...quite a strange hobby.

Indeed. A small window into the soul of the man.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Hi Jeemak

The cascading length of this article diminishes the journalist in stature when one considers the trifling points here-within.
Jeff had a go at humor with a player's wife on a footy trip regarding the style of her Jeans. Jeff declined to go on a fishing trip. In 2013 someone made a racial comment.
Ok fine, but that's far too many pixels, and smacks of moral outrage, which of course The R-Age is highly awarded for.

The age is just trying to politicize football before an election.
No, am not a fan of the Liberal party.

GD I think you are ignoring the fact that clearly the Riolies felt belittled by Kennett over the journey.
You opine it was just a joke but discrimination is judged not by intentions but by the victims' feelings.
Clearly Rioli is a better judge of that than you.

[bornadog]

GD I think you are ignoring the fact that clearly the Riolies felt belittled by Kennett over the journey.
You opine it was just a joke but discrimination is judged not by intentions but by the victims' feelings.
Clearly Rioli is a better judge of that than you.

Exactly, and it wasn't just that one issue, it was the last straw

[Ghost Dog]

GD I think you are ignoring the fact that clearly the Riolies felt belittled by Kennett over the journey.
You opine it was just a joke but discrimination is judged not by intentions but by the victims' feelings.
Clearly Rioli is a better judge of that than you.

Hi BorninDroopSt

FIY I did not ignore the fact that the couple felt slighted.
I understand they felt slighted. Teasing someone because of their ripped jeans is not discriminatory and I don't read the paper is article is claiming this. Rather, that this was a straw that broke the camel's back on top of a discriminatory remark made in 2013 and other personal factors.

And excuse me, my cultural background? judge me?
Well, that rather personal attack seems counter to the spirit of the forum, but if you wish.

Here it is. Jeff Kennett is unpopular and frankly I feel this is very justified.
But The R-Age is running an anti-liberal platform up to the election and the length of this article is way out of proportion to make it very obvious. Let's call it for what it is. And now Jake Niall is running a front page follow up. I mean please.

The R-age is the biggest peddler of petty moral outrage in the Australian media. Used to be my favourite paper. Is it a story, sure.

[hujsh]

Hi BorninDroopSt

FIY I did not ignore the fact that the couple felt slighted. Can you point out WHERE I said this?
I understand they felt slighted. I am to understand that this in itself was not a discriminatory remark from Kennett, rather a poor attempt at humor ( teasing someone because of their ripped jeans is not discriminatory ).
Rather, that this was a straw that broke the camel's back on top of a discriminatory remark made in 2013.

And excuse me, how do you know my culture background? or anything about me for that matter to judge me?

So, I feel a little slighted myself. Thanks for that.

Would you make that kind of joke to an Aboriginal woman you probably don't have a close relationship with, implying they're too poor to afford proper pants, or would you think better of it?

If you did and they expressed they were offended by it would you apologize or say 'sorry if you were offended'?

I think the fact that you presumably wouldn't do either of the things Kennett did says enough about how he handled himself.



I'd also mention the article claims "a string of events in previous years" not just the one from 2013. Which alludes to something going on culturally but we just have the 2 examples to go off.

I'll admit though that this incident alone probably wouldn't have caused Cyril to retire and makes for a good story with a clear villain. Good for selling papers.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

HI GD.
I have no idea what you are referring to re: cultural background.
I know you and me are/were ESL teachers and so I respect you so much.

[Raw Toast]

These matters can be hard to discuss and hard to process, but for what it's worth GD, I disagree very much with your take that this is a storm in a tea-cup that is being used by a newspaper for election politics.

I highly recommend this piece by Jack Latimore, an excellent First Nations journalist who happens to currently work at the Age (and I agree that the Age has declined greatly in standard over recent years).

Also, Joel Wilkinson has an important twitter thread about why the focus has been mainly on Kennett, when the Hawks leadership & coaching were also clearly problematic on this as well.

[NoseBleed]

My personal opinion of Kennett is clouded by not just politics, but personal interaction in the local shops and on the roads, and my personal take is that I think he’s an arseclown.

That said, while the article paints a pretty poor picture of Hawthorn’s culture towards indigenous Australians, the actual remark at the airport comes across as a fashion statement and a generational clumsiness.

The woke nature of the world let’s those who chose outrage to find it in what is otherwise innocent, and my read of the article could find outrage in many of the statements if I chose.

Outrage is a dangerous game, nobody wins.

[jeemak]

Hi Jeemak

The cascading length of this article diminishes the journalist in stature when one considers the trifling points here-within.
Jeff had a go at humor with a player's wife on a footy trip regarding the style of her Jeans. Jeff declined to go on a fishing trip. In 2013 someone made a racial comment.
Ok fine, but that's far too many pixels, and smacks of moral outrage, which of course The R-Age is highly awarded for.

The age is just trying to politicize football before an election.
No, am not a fan of the Liberal party.

Hey GD! This one you can't pin on me.....I'd be annoyed you'd have figured out my master puppetry skills!

As for The Age, they're owned by Nine Fairfax and their Chairman is slippery Peter Costello. They haven't been a left wing rag for years and are possibly the biggest Coalition apologists and mollycoddlers of the papers, noting the others are just cheer leaders. But that's political, and we don't do that around here!

So Jee and EW are the same. Always knew it.

And we're also both SquirrelGrip.....which is making it difficult!

Nah GD, I know you're a decent fella. I just have a different opinion on this.

Jeff Kennett has never done anything but punch downwards, and in my opinion this is just true to type.

That explains why Brad Pitt keeps appearing when I'm not expecting him to.

Sprung!

[jeemak]

Jeff Kennett. Is anyone surprised? Do you remember this from 2011?

******



FORMER premier Jeff Kennett has once again courted controversy with his love of the golliwog.

The Hawthorn president has revealed the latest member of his golliwog collection wears a brown and gold uniform, is tall and thin and goes by the name of Buddy, after Hawks forward Lance "Buddy" Franklin.

"Buddy (Franklin) is long, tall and thin and I hope he is as proud of the golliwog as I am," Mr Kennett said when asked what Buddy Franklin's response would be to his namesake.

"They are a major part of my life and I love them," he said.

"Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

"Every golliwog has a name. This one is in Hawthorn colours and he will be my Buddy. He joins Jacko, Mr King - named after boxing promoter Don King - and 40 other gollies in my collection."

But not everyone shares his love of the doll, and former Brisbane Lion Chris Johnson yesterday voiced concern about Mr Kennett's latest golly, which comes after a string of incidents involving racism in football.

"It's definitely a little bit inappropriate," he said.

"He probably should be thinking of the pressure he is putting on Franklin.

"I don't think it matters what colour you are, he is being disrespectful to one of his marquee players who should be focusing on a big game this weekend."

Mr Kennett has previously sung the praises of golliwogs, last year describing them as "the most repressed toys in society today".

He has 40 in his collection, including Jacko who was a present when he was born.

"They are a major part of my life and I love them," he told the Herald Sun.

"I don't intend to listen to those who have lost their sense of humour and seek to make a political correctness issue out of everything.

"I have a complete series of golliwog books to read to my grandchildren and I don't intend to abandon the things in my life that give me pleasure. I'm not hurting anyone and I am not committing any crime."

Mr Kennett said his Buddy would not be attending Sunday's match against Collingwood.

"I never take any golliwogs to the game."

Source: https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/go...7d59c1b315cf11

Racial issues aside...quite a strange hobby.

I was going to post the same article and comment on how weird it all is, and how prejudiced his overall thinking has been for years (let's not forget his suggestion that gay men shouldn't be giving rub downs to footballers because.....well just because they can't control themselves or whatever).

The sooner the AFL world is rid of him the better.

[mjp]

The incident with Shannyn is a clear case of Kennett assuming a relationship that she did not believe existed.

HE thought he could joke around with her about her appearance...SHE did not believe they had a relationship of trust/friendship that would enable this.

Is that being racist or simply being a D*#&??? Well...it's probably the latter, but EVERYTHING about their relationship up-to-that point in time would clearly impact on how Shannyn interpreted things. And ultimately, how Cyril interpreted things when the story was relayed to him.

I think Kennett is mostly just being a D*#& in the story relayed in the article, BUT if the Rioli's perception was that it was racially based then it WAS.

As someone who coaches a LOT of indigenous players and regularly deals with their families, often they are justifiably suspicious of my motives when we first start working together....a few months down the line after regular communication and establishing a baseline of trust I find in most cases our communications can fall back to a more 'casual' level and - for example - I can poke fun at what they are wearing etc (and equally, they can and do poke fun at me). In some cases though, this doesn't happen and communications need to remain more 'formal'/polite.

Do I feel sorry for Kennett and Hawthorn? Well, yes and no. It's a very challenging situation and clubs with a very small number of indigenous players are always going to be lagging behind in cultural awareness...as for Cyril's comment that the "white blokes were always welcome to join us", that's a situation where he actually needed to take a bit of a look in the mirror and INVITE interaction rather than just saying 'everyone was welcome'...he knows that as well.

I don't know what to tell you. If you want to have a strong and positive relationship with the indigenous players then you have to really focus on it...

[Grantysghost]

Perfectly judged MJP.

I was thinking the same thing but down a different path.

I'm a bit of a war buff, the Nazis had two heils.

The formal and informal. One was the arm out straight like we can all visualise.

The other, a casual limp lift of familiarity.

You had to be part of the inner circle ie build trust to use the latter.

Jeff hadn't done that, and with the level of trust already at a low it was just a dumb move and I hope not deliberately pejorative but only Jeff would know that.

(nazi metaphor in no way a link to anyone involved).

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Psychopaths and sociopaths are strong words yet they walk amongst us as any teacher knows.
Also they are something of a spectrum or degrees.
They reach many postions of authority, including psychologists, doctors, psychiatrist and on a committe near you.
They can be amazing and helpful but just lack empathy.
They play the game of love thinking it is like believing in santa claus, a myth everyone goes along with.
Empaths can spot them when dealing with them personally.
I suggest this may have happened with the Riolies and Kennett.

[Ghost Dog]

The incident with Shannyn is a clear case of Kennett assuming a relationship that she did not believe existed.

HE thought he could joke around with her about her appearance...SHE did not believe they had a relationship of trust/friendship that would enable this.

Is that being racist or simply being a D*#&??? Well...it's probably the latter, but EVERYTHING about their relationship up-to-that point in time would clearly impact on how Shannyn interpreted things. And ultimately, how Cyril interpreted things when the story was relayed to him.

I think Kennett is mostly just being a D*#& in the story relayed in the article, BUT if the Rioli's perception was that it was racially based then it WAS.

As someone who coaches a LOT of indigenous players and regularly deals with their families, often they are justifiably suspicious of my motives when we first start working together....a few months down the line after regular communication and establishing a baseline of trust I find in most cases our communications can fall back to a more 'casual' level and - for example - I can poke fun at what they are wearing etc (and equally, they can and do poke fun at me). In some cases though, this doesn't happen and communications need to remain more 'formal'/polite.

Do I feel sorry for Kennett and Hawthorn? Well, yes and no. It's a very challenging situation and clubs with a very small number of indigenous players are always going to be lagging behind in cultural awareness...as for Cyril's comment that the "white blokes were always welcome to join us", that's a situation where he actually needed to take a bit of a look in the mirror and INVITE interaction rather than just saying 'everyone was welcome'...he knows that as well.

I don't know what to tell you. If you want to have a strong and positive relationship with the indigenous players then you have to really focus on it...

Hi MJP
Good points and fair ones except for one that's making me think for other examples.
Perhaps as a coach you have this perception and I know Paul Roos has said it in the past.
If someone perceives something as racist, it is?

With respect, In your view then, was Matt Rendell being racist ( leading to be fired )?

Making someone feel they are in the presence of racism ( which is unfortunate and an apology is warranted if you want to keep that relationship) is not quite the same as targeting someone with racist taunts or otherwise ( which is illegal ).