‘The only club I wouldn’t put my hand up for right now’: Why Hawks legend Cyril Rioli has stayed away

[bornadog]

The situation at Hawthorn is not just about the incident with the comments made about clothing. For Cyril and his wife, it was the last straw in a serious of things that happened at the club. If Cyril feels there was racial prejudice against him, then I believe Cyril.

Indigenous people have copped a lot over the years and it is no wonder they are very sensitive to anything that is said to them, no matter how innocent the comment may be.

[Twodogs]

Jeff Kennett being a massive, detestable piece of human garbage?

There's just no way anyone could have seen this coming.

I'm shocked it hasn't occurred to anyone else before now.

[GVGjr]

I think MJP has called it correctly. I have no political position with Kennett but a few years back I used to regularly see him on walks through the park near my place. He was always decked out in a Hawthorn polo's or t-shirts. Seeing me with a Bulldogs cap he stopped and said "How will those Doggies go this year?". After a brief chat where I introduced myself we went back to our walking.
Two days later we crossed paths again and I got a "Hi Gary" and the same a week or so later.
I think he has misread things with Rioli and it's going to sound silly given his years as a politician and exposure in public life but I think he is naive and socially awkward without an ability to read the room correctly. He's an OK guy and I doubt he meant too much by it.

Just my 2 cents.

[Grantysghost]

I think MJP has called it correctly. I have no political position with Kennett but a few years back I used to regularly see him on walks through the park near my place. He was always decked out in a Hawthorn polo's or t-shirts. Seeing me with a Bulldogs cap he stopped and said "How will those Doggies go this year?". After a brief chat where I introduced myself we went back to our walking.
Two days later we crossed paths again and I got a "Hi Gary" and the same a week or so later.
I think he has misread things with Rioli and it's going to sound silly given his years as a politician and exposure in public life but I think he is naive and socially awkward without an ability to read the room correctly. He's an OK guy and I doubt he meant too much by it.

Just my 2 cents.

The public perception often is in contrast to the person.

That's a decent insight.

This whole good guy v bad guy paradigm is such a trope, there are many shades of grey to everyone and unless you know someone; you don't know them.

Doesnt mean folks can't judge him on his public face, or his politics if they so choose of course. Personally I don't like to do that.

We can separate the person from their political leanings and connect harmoniously on many other levels I believe.

[GVGjr]

The public perception often is in contrast to the person.

That's a decent insight.

This whole good guy v bad guy paradigm is such a trope, there are many shades of grey to everyone and unless you know someone; you don't know them.

Doesnt mean folks can't judge him on his public face, or his politics if they so choose of course. Personally I don't like to do that.

We can separate the person from their political leanings and connect harmoniously on many other levels I believe.

If he really stuffs up then it needs to be called out with no exception but we need to understand that with his work with Beyond Blue he's certainly tried to do the right things for people. If he's being called out for racial insensitivity I get it but I also just don't see it in him at it's core.
If he is being called out for being socially awkward yep I could see that happening. We all get it wrong from time to time.

[mjp]

With respect, In your view then, was Matt Rendell being racist ( leading to be fired )?

Was Matt Rendell being racist?

Umm - how do I answer this? What he said was 100% a disgrace and everyone here would be sick of me going on about the draft issues experienced by players such as Sydney Stack over my time on this forum. But - and here's the BUT - what he was referring too was a societal problem rather than a race problem...Many commentators on the game have been lamenting the constant references to the (very expensive) private schools attended by so many of the games high draft picks - both the fact that a private school education seems to be a pre-requisite for top level picks (regardless of state) AND that the match-day commentators insist on mentioning it 1000000 times each day.

Rendell was referring to a situation relating to the challenges footy clubs face relocating - in particular, regional indigenous players to the big smoke AND integrating them into a professional sporting environment. What he was ultimately saying was that it's way easier to take a kid from a double income with both parents 'on the scene' who attends a private school and integrate them into the 'system' than relocate a potentially more talented player from a single parent environment in a regional area into the AFL. It is equally hard to integrate a low socio-economic non-indigenous player - particularly one from a single parent family into the AFL - but so many of those players (both examples) never come through the pathway because:

1/. They can't get to NAB League/WAFL/SANFL training due to transport issues.
2/. They are trying to hold down part-time jobs on top of school and have time pressures.
3/. They are often seen as ratbags/non-conformists as they don't always do the 'right' thing...the focus on 'good citizens' over 'talented players' has 100% gone too far.

I mean, back to Rendlell, he's right for so many reasons. But whereas once upon a time the AFL (and before that, VFL-WAFL-SANFL) clubs would just say 'stuff it' and take a chance, NOW they don't want to do it...why? Because back when they could say 'STUFF IT - let's role the dice' there were no worries about 'wasted' draft picks, contracts were limited to matchies (so if the player in question didn't play they got nothing) and if the player couldn't cope with life in the city, who cares? Let them go home and no harm, no foul. Some kid lands at West Perth (for example) from Kalgoorlie and doesn't make it? Who cares? He goes back to Kal with his tail between his legs in June and no-one ever knows he was there...these days, different scenario.

This to me is an absolute minefield that I'm not all that happy treading through but solutions like the one implemented by the Giants at Breakfast Point with the Lambert's effectively acting as surrogates to a whole swag of young kids regardless of background is one more clubs need to try and replicate...but the clubs would claim the softcap has put a stop to all that...has it? I actually don't know for sure but what I do know is there is less money available to be simply thrown around...

What's the answer? Hawthorn are trying by appointing the amazing Brady Gray as an ILO and trying to rebuild their relationship with their indigenous players/indigenous community but again, the soft cap...I know our club once had the brilliant Jason Mifsud in a similar role but he left to fulfill a BIGGER position in a regional area...how do we ensure our cultural health in these matters without someone like Jason at least providing some heavy support and consulting? Well, I doubt we do.

[Grantysghost]

If he really stuffs up then it needs to be called out with no exception but we need to understand that with his work with Beyond Blue he's certainly tried to do the right things for people. If he's being called out for racial insensitivity I get it but I also just don't see it in him at it's core.
If he is being called out for being socially awkward yep I could see that happening. We all get it wrong from time to time.

Totally agree that's a given.

[bornadog]

.I know our club once had the brilliant Jason Mifsud in a similar role but he left to fulfill a BIGGER position in a regional area...how do we ensure our cultural health in these matters without someone like Jason at least providing some heavy support and consulting? Well, I doubt we do.

I think you will find we have put alot of programmes into place to support our two indigenous players, plus we have the Nallei Jerring Koori Leadership Project which aims to support Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait islander young people, by providing opportunities through the Western Bulldogs as a way of encouraging leadership within the local Aboriginal community.

[mjp]

I think you will find we have put alot of programmes into place to support our two indigenous players.

We have "a LOT" of programmes for 2x players?

Without wanting to sound cynical I don't really know what that means. I know Jones is apparently exceedingly happy (I have no connection with Jamarra) but the players don't need a lot of programs...they need a stable and consistent support network outside of the leadership of the club.

I'm guessing the tribal leadership of Jamarra from the West of Victoria (apologies, my indigenous map of Australia isn't actually clear on which mob are from that territory) and the Noongar people of SW WA where Jones is from would be quite different...I'm unsure on the cultural implications of this (more my wife's specialty) but I'm pretty sure this wouldn't be a one size fits all solution.

Please understand BAD I'm not trying to criticise the club here (that is the opposite of my intention) but it's pretty typical of institutions to say they have a program in place when what the 'individuals' who should be accessing said program(s) have quite different needs/requirements.

[Mofra]

Please understand BAD I'm not trying to criticise the club here (that is the opposite of my intention) but it's pretty typical of institutions to say they have a program in place when what the 'individuals' who should be accessing said program(s) have quite different needs/requirements.

I don't think we're focussed on systems anymore, but are trying to get people with requisite cultural sensitivities in and around the club - Varcoe at a coaching level, CCP on a social level.

On Kennett: he's a 74 year old toff. It's quite possible he made a number of offensive comments over the years without realizing the gravity of what he was saying. That's not to excuse what he said, but obviously there are no systems (or inadequate systems) to pull someone up on their behavior at Hawthorn, and likely across the board in clubland.

It's exactly why ongoing focus and education are need, we're nowhere near "job done" on indigenous issues.

[bornadog]

I don't think we're focussed on systems anymore, but are trying to get people with requisite cultural sensitivities in and around the club - Varcoe at a coaching level, CCP on a social level.

On Kennett: he's a 74 year old toff. It's quite possible he made a number of offensive comments over the years without realizing the gravity of what he was saying. That's not to excuse what he said, but obviously there are no systems (or inadequate systems) to pull someone up on their behavior at Hawthorn, and likely across the board in clubland.

It's exactly why ongoing focus and education are need, we're nowhere near "job done" on indigenous issues.

Stuff like this contributed to Cyril's anger.

Much more troubling was the incident from a 2013 end of season trip (when Kennett wasn’t club president) when, according to Shannyn, a senior player asked teammates whether the partner of one Indigenous teammate was “also a boong”.

Cyril will not be going back to the club until Kennett is gone

[Ghost Dog]

These matters can be hard to discuss and hard to process, but for what it's worth GD, I disagree very much with your take that this is a storm in a tea-cup that is being used by a newspaper for election politics.

I highly recommend this piece by Jack Latimore, an excellent First Nations journalist who happens to currently work at the Age (and I agree that the Age has declined greatly in standard over recent years).

Also, Joel Wilkinson has an important twitter thread about why the focus has been mainly on Kennett, when the Hawks leadership & coaching were also clearly problematic on this as well.

Thanks Raw Toast. I will have a look.
Like GVGjr, the article in Wilson makes no consideration for Kennett's considerable advocacy for depression with Beyond blue.
Not that I can recall anyway. Do we all feel it shouldn't be mentioned or is not worth mentioning? This is a good point from Gary.

Wilson is all about divisive angles and vitriol.
There is no counterbalance ( note the LB V Tom Morrison affair ).

Looking at the article, with follow up from Jake Niall and sitting beside an article on Morrison, how he is supposed to have slighted someone for their Lebanese background years ago, and an election so close, it's hard to agree with you RT, but variety of views is good for the brain.

[Ghost Dog]

Hey GD! This one you can't pin on me.....I'd be annoyed you'd have figured out my master puppetry skills!

As for The Age, they're owned by Nine Fairfax and their Chairman is slippery Peter Costello. They haven't been a left wing rag for years and are possibly the biggest Coalition apologists and mollycoddlers of the papers, noting the others are just cheer leaders. But that's political, and we don't do that around here!



And we're also both SquirrelGrip.....which is making it difficult!



Sprung!

Hi Jeemak,

It's interesting, when you look at The Age and how it runs a story compared to papers also under its banner in other states, you get to see how they play it. They are certainly the puppet masters. Ka-ching. Click.
This is in part due to the death of print and the need to keep those clicks coming. now that print advertising is ka-put.
Who owns the bank balance is a different thing. Sometimes you can play it left. ( just to get those clicks ) and when it counts you play it the other way. For one year I decided to keep every negative article on China I could find in The Age. I gave up after a while. Easier just to keep them all!

[EasternWest]

I gotta say GD, defending Jeff Kennett's honour is not the hill I saw you dying on.

[Grantysghost]

I gotta say GD, defending Jeff Kennett's honour is not the hill I saw you dying on.

He's shovelling soil in your face EW xD