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09-08-2022, 12:36 PM
#916
Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)
![Quote](images/primus/blue/misc/quote_icon.png)
Originally Posted by
GVGjr
Based on Kings comments above does the recruitment of Lobb pose some challenges given we already have Naughton, Bruce, Ugle-Hagan and potentially Darcy? I'm assuming that Schache will be let go.
At his age I'm not a huge fan of the move unless it's for peanuts. If we end up relinquishing a first rounder or even early second rounder I'll be disappointed. Look at our strike rate with first and second rounders in the last five years - they all played on the weekend:
2021 - Darcy
2020 - Jamarra
2019 - Weightman
2018 - Baz, West, Vandermeer
2017 - Naughton, Richards
Admittedly Darcy and Jamarra fell into our lap at the very high end, but even so if you were to write down the names of the other six players and throw them into a hat, then offered to pick out a name versus taking Rory Lobb at age 30, it's an easy choice isn't it?
'And the Western suburbs erupt!'
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09-08-2022, 12:42 PM
#917
Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)
![Quote](images/primus/blue/misc/quote_icon.png)
Originally Posted by
GVGjr
Based on Kings comments above does the recruitment of Lobb pose some challenges given we already have Naughton, Bruce, Ugle-Hagan and potentially Darcy? I'm assuming that Schache will be let go.
Challenges yes, but on form he's the best performed one of the lot including Naughton. Darcy I think plays back for the first few years, and this actually would take the pressure off trying to force him into the ruck forward role too early. Also his ability to play as the deep forward and still be a marking threat will mean there is less reliance on Naughton to kill himself every single forward entry. Based on Bruce's form I'd much rather we gamble on having too many tall forward options than Bruce being one of them.
I should leave it alone but you're not right
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09-08-2022, 01:01 PM
#918
Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)
![Quote](images/primus/blue/misc/quote_icon.png)
Originally Posted by
Scorlibo
At his age I'm not a huge fan of the move unless it's for peanuts. If we end up relinquishing a first rounder or even early second rounder I'll be disappointed. Look at our strike rate with first and second rounders in the last five years - they all played on the weekend:
2021 - Darcy
2020 - Jamarra
2019 - Weightman
2018 - Baz, West, Vandermeer
2017 - Naughton, Richards
Admittedly Darcy and Jamarra fell into our lap at the very high end, but even so if you were to write down the names of the other six players and throw them into a hat, then offered to pick out a name versus taking Rory Lobb at age 30, it's an easy choice isn't it?
If Freo ask for a first rounder for Lobb we should walk away.
We held our nerve with Bruce & Keath, I doubt we suddenly lose it for a 30 year old Lobb who has asked to leave for the second year in a row.
Western Bulldogs: 2016 Premiers
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09-08-2022, 01:05 PM
#919
Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)
![Quote](images/primus/blue/misc/quote_icon.png)
Originally Posted by
Mofra
If Freo ask for a first rounder for Lobb we should walk away.
We held our nerve with Bruce & Keath, I doubt we suddenly lose it for a 30 year old Lobb who has asked to leave for the second year in a row.
This hole Lobb move has me nervous. He was great against us, not sure how he nailed those shots of a few steps however at his age I really don't want us to give away too much for him.
Why do we actually need him again? Any chance he plays back?
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09-08-2022, 01:18 PM
#920
Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)
![Quote](images/primus/blue/misc/quote_icon.png)
Originally Posted by
Scorlibo
At his age I'm not a huge fan of the move unless it's for peanuts. If we end up relinquishing a first rounder or even early second rounder I'll be disappointed. Look at our strike rate with first and second rounders in the last five years - they all played on the weekend:
2021 - Darcy
2020 - Jamarra
2019 - Weightman
2018 - Baz, West, Vandermeer
2017 - Naughton, Richards
Admittedly Darcy and Jamarra fell into our lap at the very high end, but even so if you were to write down the names of the other six players and throw them into a hat, then offered to pick out a name versus taking Rory Lobb at age 30, it's an easy choice isn't it?
I really can't get a gauge on what we would need to give up for Lobb. He's had a very consistent year and ideally we would have grabbed him last year as a Bruce replacement. Coming to us next season given Bruce should have fully recovered by then and with the emergence of Ugle-Hagan the fit isn't quite as good for us looking forward.
He would make us better in the short term which is worth considering but I suspect we would need to be prepared to hold Marra and potentially Darcy back a bit next season and that could be problematic. As King pointed out we already have a tall forward line so unless we make the highly unlikely decision to move Naughton or Bruce back we have have 4 or 5 players looking at 3 positions.
Freo should be asking us for our 2nd rounder for Lobb and it depends on how badly they need to rid themselves of his salary to see if there is some flexibility in that. For the life on me I can't see why they wouldn't want to keep him and there must be some others players they can clear to manage their salary cap.
Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"
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09-08-2022, 01:28 PM
#921
Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)
![Quote](images/primus/blue/misc/quote_icon.png)
Originally Posted by
mjp
Yeah, well.
We are a pretty easy target right now. The criticism of our defenders has reached plague proportions. Geelong, Freo and Melbourne are miles ahead of everyone on the Points Against ladder...I guess Sydney, Port and Carlton are in that next 'group'....after 20 games though if you are trying to tell me there is a massive difference between having 1690 points against and 1600 points against (it's 4.5 points a game in a comp with an uneven draw + throw in injuries, suspensions etc...
Do we need to defend 'better'? Well - we need to be able to grit our teeth and prevent opposition sides kicking 5 goals in a hurry - but outside of that we are clearly not as good as the best 3 but not a lot worse than those who come next.
We need to tighten up on turnovers which are killing us
FFC: Established 1883
Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.
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09-08-2022, 01:29 PM
#922
Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)
![Quote](images/primus/blue/misc/quote_icon.png)
Originally Posted by
Grantysghost
This hole Lobb move has me nervous. He was great against us, not sure how he nailed those shots of a few steps however at his age I really don't want us to give away too much for him.
Why do we actually need him again? Any chance he plays back?
We need a second ruck solution.
FFC: Established 1883
Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.
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09-08-2022, 01:33 PM
#923
Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)
![Quote](images/primus/blue/misc/quote_icon.png)
Originally Posted by
bornadog
We need a second ruck solution.
Logue was their second ruck on the weekend even when Taberner was fit.
I'm ok with him coming over but apart from this year I didn't rate him at all.
Right price I'm ok with it.
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09-08-2022, 01:35 PM
#924
Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)
![Quote](images/primus/blue/misc/quote_icon.png)
Originally Posted by
Grantysghost
Logue was their second ruck on the weekend even when Taberner was fit.
I'm ok with him coming over but apart from this year I didn't rate him at all.
Right price I'm ok with it.
I was all for him, but I am on the fence now, and like you must be at the right price.
North's 3rd rounder is just about a 2nd rounder
FFC: Established 1883
Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.
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09-08-2022, 01:38 PM
#925
Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)
![Quote](images/primus/blue/misc/quote_icon.png)
Originally Posted by
mjp
Yeah, well.
We are a pretty easy target right now. The criticism of our defenders has reached plague proportions. Geelong, Freo and Melbourne are miles ahead of everyone on the Points Against ladder...I guess Sydney, Port and Carlton are in that next 'group'....after 20 games though if you are trying to tell me there is a massive difference between having 1690 points against and 1600 points against (it's 4.5 points a game in a comp with an uneven draw + throw in injuries, suspensions etc...
Do we need to defend 'better'? Well - we need to be able to grit our teeth and prevent opposition sides kicking 5 goals in a hurry - but outside of that we are clearly not as good as the best 3 but not a lot worse than those who come next.
I'm not sure if you are potting the media as that is our natural reaction or agreeing with David King, Daniel Harford and Adam Ramanuskas that our defending for the whole group on the weekend was non existent and hasn't been great during 2022?
David King he has been critical of our on field fortunes for majority of the season and most media scribes have been very generous with our poor season to date, thinking we will come good when it matters.
We are coming off a grand final where our defensive system was pretty strong up until the last 40 minutes of the season.
I expected us to be the in the top 3 off ladder position and points against.
Surely the injuries argument is now dead in the water as we've had a pretty clean bill of health during the second half of the year and still haven't performed.
As you would say mjp surely we need to compare ourselves to the competitions best and not midtable teams.
More of an In Bruges guy?
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09-08-2022, 01:40 PM
#926
Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)
![Quote](images/primus/blue/misc/quote_icon.png)
Originally Posted by
GVGjr
Based on Kings comments above does the recruitment of Lobb pose some challenges given we already have Naughton, Bruce, Ugle-Hagan and potentially Darcy? I'm assuming that Schache will be let go.
Devils avocado time; as I'd prefer to play Schache ahead of Lobb.
But maybe Darcy spends next year as a defender and not forward / ruck and Bruce and Lobb fight out the 3rd key forward and ruck relief role.
I honestly expect Ugle-Hagan to hold his own as the 2nd key forward behind Naughton.
More of an In Bruges guy?
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09-08-2022, 01:41 PM
#927
Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)
![Quote](images/primus/blue/misc/quote_icon.png)
Originally Posted by
soupman
Challenges yes, but on form he's the best performed one of the lot including Naughton. Darcy I think plays back for the first few years, and this actually would take the pressure off trying to force him into the ruck forward role too early. Also his ability to play as the deep forward and still be a marking threat will mean there is less reliance on Naughton to kill himself every single forward entry. Based on Bruce's form I'd much rather we gamble on having too many tall forward options than Bruce being one of them.
My thoughts on Darcy as well and posted a similar reply to GVGjr before reading your post.
More of an In Bruges guy?
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09-08-2022, 01:42 PM
#928
Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)
![Quote](images/primus/blue/misc/quote_icon.png)
Originally Posted by
azabob
I'm not sure if you are potting the media as that is our natural reaction or agreeing with David King, Daniel Harford and Adam Ramanuskas that our defending for the whole group defense on the weekend was non existent and hasn't been great during 2022?
David King he has been critical of our on field fortunes for majority of the season and most media scribes have been very generous with our poor season to date, thinking we will come good when it matters.
We are coming off a grand final where our defensive system was pretty strong up until the last 40 minutes of the season.
I expected us to be the in the top 3 off ladder position and points against.
Surely the injuries argument is now dead in the water as we've had a pretty clean bill of health during the second half of the year and still haven't performed.
As you would say mjp surely we need to compare ourselves to the competitions best and not midtable teams.
Trouble with David King is he doesn't have a solution. At one stage he suggested Naughton go back then a few weeks later suggested JUH should go back. All he is doing is outlining the problems we all discuss here on WOOF.
I have no time for these media scribes.
FFC: Established 1883
Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.
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09-08-2022, 02:00 PM
#929
Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)
![Quote](images/primus/blue/misc/quote_icon.png)
Originally Posted by
GVGjr
I really can't get a gauge on what we would need to give up for Lobb. He's had a very consistent year and ideally we would have grabbed him last year as a Bruce replacement. Coming to us next season given Bruce should have fully recovered by then and with the emergence of Ugle-Hagan the fit isn't quite as good for us looking forward.
He would make us better in the short term which is worth considering but I suspect we would need to be prepared to hold Marra and potentially Darcy back a bit next season and that could be problematic. As King pointed out we already have a tall forward line so unless we make the highly unlikely decision to move Naughton or Bruce back we have have 4 or 5 players looking at 3 positions.
Freo should be asking us for our 2nd rounder for Lobb and it depends on how badly they need to rid themselves of his salary to see if there is some flexibility in that. For the life on me I can't see why they wouldn't want to keep him and there must be some others players they can clear to manage their salary cap.
He seems to have completely lost his spring to go for marks. Do you think that will come back G?
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09-08-2022, 02:20 PM
#930
Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)
![Quote](images/primus/blue/misc/quote_icon.png)
Originally Posted by
soupman
Challenges yes, but on form he's the best performed one of the lot including Naughton. Darcy I think plays back for the first few years, and this actually would take the pressure off trying to force him into the ruck forward role too early. Also his ability to play as the deep forward and still be a marking threat will mean there is less reliance on Naughton to kill himself every single forward entry. Based on Bruce's form I'd much rather we gamble on having too many tall forward options than Bruce being one of them.
Darcy's mobility could get exposed in the back line until he matures. His light frame might mean we really have to manage who he is pitted against.
Jones (if he comes to us) and Gardner should get the main forwards and I suspect Keath will back them up unless he shows up in better form next year. This means Darcy is more or less looking after the 3rd tall forward. That's going to be an interesting puzzle for us to balance the match-ups.
Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"