List Management thread (For 2022)

[Happy Days]

There has to be a better option than 32 year old, year out of the game, wasn’t really ever that great anyway, unvaccinated Liam Jones. If there’s not we aren’t trying hard enough.

[GVGjr]

There has to be a better option than 32 year old, year out of the game, wasn’t really ever that great anyway, unvaccinated Liam Jones. If there’s not we aren’t trying hard enough.

It's a fair observation. He's become a better player in the eyes on many while he's been away from the game.
I guess the real appeal is that we wouldn't have to trade for him.

[soupman]

There has to be a better option than 32 year old, year out of the game, wasn’t really ever that great anyway, unvaccinated Liam Jones. If there’s not we aren’t trying hard enough.

I too am unexcited.

To me it feels like the Stefan Martin recruitment, leaving your project to the night before and just putting together the minimum you need to get a pass.

Sure Jones will theoretically be addressing our needs on paper, but how many here really believe he'll make a real difference and best case scenario he will only plug the gap for maybe 2 years?

[azabob]

Good point. I'd prefer him be a more attacking player but he might have to learn that more lock down skill.

I think Richards could lock down. He has pace, good overhead and seems to be able to actually defend one on one.

No reason he can't also be attacking to completement Daniel and Dale who are already very attacking.

[Grantysghost]

There has to be a better option than 32 year old, year out of the game, wasn’t really ever that great anyway, unvaccinated Liam Jones. If there’s not we aren’t trying hard enough.

I think it's a no brainer.

He will be cheap as and it's better than having guys on your list that you've got hundreds of.

Don't think it's the same as Martin he was already cooked.

I think MJP was wise in that instance.

[mjp]

I think it's a no brainer.

He will be cheap as and it's better than having guys on your list that you've got hundreds of.

Don't think it's the same as Martin he was already cooked.

I think MJP was wise in that instance.

I'm wise again. No to Jones.

[hujsh]

I'm wise again. No to Jones.

Live by the MJP, die by the MJP

[Grantysghost]

I'm wise again. No to Jones.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day right !

Would you prefer Lachie Sullivan?

[mjp]

Even a broken clock is right twice a day right !

Would you prefer Lachie Sullivan?

Umm - I've only seen Sullivan play on TV and I thought he was a mid?

Don't recruit old people. Jones is old. Don't recruit old people who haven't played in > 12-months (it's a hard, physical game and the TRAINING alone will break most bodies).

Should we have tried Jones as a defender. Probably. We didn't. Carlton did. He seemed OK but somehow despite having him and Weitering their defence still sucked - but no-one cared because that seemed the least of their problems since they were losing every week. I don't want to lose every week.

By the way, I would not have recruited O'Brien either and said that at the time. Moneyball is a great strategy when the player is the RIGHT player. Ask 3x Hawks supporters about the OBrien trade and every one of them would laugh...

There are no 'stop gap' solutions. Unfortunately our sport doesn't work that way.

[Grantysghost]

Umm - I've only seen Sullivan play on TV and I thought he was a mid?

Don't recruit old people. Jones is old. Don't recruit old people who haven't played in > 12-months (it's a hard, physical game and the TRAINING alone will break most bodies).

Should we have tried Jones as a defender. Probably. We didn't. Carlton did. He seemed OK but somehow despite having him and Weitering their defence still sucked - but no-one cared because that seemed the least of their problems since they were losing every week. I don't want to lose every week.

By the way, I would not have recruited O'Brien either and said that at the time. Moneyball is a great strategy when the player is the RIGHT player. Ask 3x Hawks supporters about the OBrien trade and every one of them would laugh...

There are no 'stop gap' solutions. Unfortunately our sport doesn't work that way.

Stop making sense.

My comparison was having someone like Sullivan on the list (not an area of need) v taking a risk on a Jones for little cost. Maybe even as a rookie.

I don't see it as a bad move.

O'Brien I'm with you there but again he's more an area of need so I can cop it over a McComb for eg.

Are we using a stats based strategy? (moneyball)

As always you make an interesting argument.

[mjp]

Stop making sense.

My comparison was having someone like Sullivan on the list (not an area of need) v taking a risk on a Jones for little cost. Maybe even as a rookie.

I don't see it as a bad move.

Yeah, but I think there's more to recruiting Jones than just having a number on the list. He is going to expect to play, and if he doesn't that will be a disruption. And I am unsure why it is a Jones vs Sullivan type conversation - we should have a profile for our list in terms of rucks, key backs, small backs, running backs, outside mids, inside mids, utility mids, medium forwards, small forwards and key forwards. Depending on where we are at, we should recruit players to fill the gaps either now (if the gaps are immediate) or in 2-3 years (if the gaps are identified as being needed to be addressed in that timeframe - retirements etc). I am sure we do this.

I am sort of in the boat where getting in a player who we know is either:

a/. Average or replacement level
b/. Declining
c/. Excess to requirements (position based)

...well, we shouldn't recruit them.

I didn't like the Martin choice as he was in decline and consistently injured. I didn't like the O'Brien choice because he was in and out of the Hawks side and whenever players 'like that' change clubs, their new club quickly finds out why...primarily because their best is good enough but they aren't at 'their best' consistently enough. The excess to requirements thing was my take on Treloar and whilst I loved him (and still do) as a player I just didn't get how he would help us as there is only one footy and 4-5 inside mid spots to go around.

O'Brien I'm with you there but again he's more an area of need so I can cop it over a McComb for eg.

Are we using a stats based strategy? (moneyball)

O'Brien is in an area of need but recruiting a player who is replacement level means you will always be trying to replace him. McComb - see - I kind of get the idea of recruiting a player with his attributes and seeing if he might become something...I know he is 27 or whatever but having not played top-level footy/been involved in full-time footy you never know. What DIDN'T we know about O'Brien??

I don't hate OBrien btw. He's fine. But to me we have recruited another average, undersized tall-ish defender (like Zaine!) and now we have a back up player to a player who can't get a game.

Are we following a Moneyball strategy? Well - how else can you explain the decisions to recruit O'Brien, Martin, Treloar...even Duryea and Crozier???

[GVGjr]

Don't recruit old people. Jones is old. Don't recruit old people who haven't played in > 12-months (it's a hard, physical game and the TRAINING alone will break most bodies).

Normally I disagree with ruling a line through players just because of a birth date. If the player is still mobile and hasn't been cruelled by injuries then if they fit a need and we are comfortable with a shorter term horizon I'm more than happy for the club to consider them. You can't overdo in terms of having too many older players but it can work.

Jones is a tricky one though. He was playing some very good football before he retired in fact he was very impressive in 2021.
Then came the Covid protocols and a vaccine reluctant Liam Jones retired from the game.
The rules have changed and he appears to be interested in returning to the AFL.

I can't help but remember back to when what we saw with Crameri being out of the game for 12 months that it doesn't necessarily help a player freshen up.
Crameri trained with some of the banned players before returning to us and I believe he hired a personal trainer to help him stay fit and prepare for the following season but then the injuries started to mount up and he couldn't regain his spot with us and even after another change of club Geelong couldn't get him on the park.

Jones has been training and playing albeit at a vastly lower level but perhaps there is some food for thought that a 12 month break from the game didn't freshen up Crameri like we would be hoping it does for Jones. Would it make him more prone to injuries?

Jones fits a need for us and wouldn't cost us in terms of having to trade picks etc but is bringing in a vaccine reluctant player a good decision for us? I get the temptation but I'm not so sure it would be a great decision for the club.

[EasternWest]

There has to be a better option than 32 year old, year out of the game, wasn’t really ever that great anyway, unvaccinated Liam Jones. If there’s not we aren’t trying hard enough.

Vote 1 Happy Days.

[Scorlibo]

Sorry if this has been raised previously but thoughts on Cam Zurhaar? Out of contract at the end of the year. Could add a really hard, big body to our forward line and can play tall or small. Has kicked goals at North while starved of opportunity.

[GVGjr]

Sorry if this has been raised previously but thoughts on Cam Zurhaar? Out of contract at the end of the year. Could add a really hard, big body to our forward line and can play tall or small. Has kicked goals at North while starved of opportunity.

He's done very well but I don't think he fits our more glaring needs.