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  1. #76
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    Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)

    Quote Originally Posted by azabob View Post
    Or on the flip side he could fit right in!

    Great observation in list management by Fremantle in addressing key position stocks.
    The following year they went after Brayshaw and Cerra so it looks like when they identify a gap they go hard to cover their needs.
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

  2. #77
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    Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Days View Post
    My recollection of it is Logue was a bit of a reach based on his testing results and him being from WA, but to me he definitely looks the part. We’d have to give up something pretty significant though.
    It probably comes down to if Fremantle see themselves as genuine contenders or not.
    A draft pick might interest them if there is a local boy they are very interested in.
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

  3. #78
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    Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog Joe View Post
    I am certainly with you on this.

    We consistently refuse to pick tall players based on what they can't do and all our talls are expected to mobile and good at ground level.

    Under Beveridge we have quickly closed off the career of an All Australian Ruckman and actively removed Premiership Talls in Roughead and Roberts. Plus a reasonable back-up ruck in Campbell.

    We also recruited and then dismissed Trengove based on the same criteria

    We have also seen Hamling and Adams choose to go elsewhere, while Boyd has retired with different issues.

    Throughout all this we have consistently played undersized in defence.

    Why would any tall choose to play under Beveridge.

    I don't agree with your assessment of Bevo. Bevo is looking for a particular type of tall.

    Of all the players you listed, Hamling is the one I would not have let go.

    Under Bevo the talls we have recruited are English, Naughton, Schache, Bruce, Gardner, Keath, Sweet, Martin, JUH and Darcy
    FFC: Established 1877

    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

  4. #79
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    Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)

    Quote Originally Posted by jeemak View Post
    By whom is he deemed too small? BAD?

    BAD is an extremely body conscious poster........you know that!
    Posts have confirmed he is very invested in his WAH principles in assessing players. (Weight, Age and Height)
    Form and ability is more of a tie breaker consideration.
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

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  6. #80
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    Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog Joe View Post
    I am certainly with you on this.

    We consistently refuse to pick tall players based on what they can't do and all our talls are expected to mobile and good at ground level.

    Under Beveridge we have quickly closed off the career of an All Australian Ruckman and actively removed Premiership Talls in Roughead and Roberts. Plus a reasonable back-up ruck in Campbell.

    We also recruited and then dismissed Trengove based on the same criteria

    We have also seen Hamling and Adams choose to go elsewhere, while Boyd has retired with different issues.

    Throughout all this we have consistently played undersized in defence.

    Why would any tall choose to play under Beveridge.
    Lewis Young was also played out of position and he seems to be going better now as a defender with Carlton.
    I don't think we had many options with Hamling but at 194cm he's just a cm taller than Logue.
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

  7. #81
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    Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    more like 10 plus centimetres.

    The human race is getting bigger and bigger.

    The King brothers are 202,
    McKay is 204
    Tom Lynch 199
    Hawkins 198
    Himmelberg (Crows) 200
    Peter Wright 203
    Hipwood 203
    Ben Brown 200

    and then you look at Darcy at 207 which will be the new norm.

    Bont is 193cm.

    I know height isn't everything, but for me we have to start looking at a fullback around the 200cm mark who obviously can play.

    I am sick of these big forwards kicking lots of goals because our guys are pip squeaks.
    Now now, I'm pretty sure you're aware I'm referring to the criteria you'd accept there. Are you saying if we were recruiting someone 195/96 cm tall you'd say "Nah he's too short to play on Max King"?

    Obviously a 200 cm backman with the agility and speed of a Naughton would be great, but there are plenty of backmen in the league (like Steven May) who manage to compete and win despite the huge 7cm difference. All I care about is if they can do the job. 193/94 cm is close to bottom end of how tall you'd want a key defender to be but if he has a good leap, good positioning etc that prevents him from being beaten consistently then I don't think it matters.

    Based on how he is rated (I've honestly not seen him play or looked for him enough to judge for myself) I suspect he does have the qualities needed to compete and win. Especially in a team defence when a midfield is doing it's part

  8. #82
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    Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog Joe View Post
    I am certainly with you on this.

    We consistently refuse to pick tall players based on what they can't do and all our talls are expected to mobile and good at ground level.

    Under Beveridge we have quickly closed off the career of an All Australian Ruckman and actively removed Premiership Talls in Roughead and Roberts. Plus a reasonable back-up ruck in Campbell.

    We also recruited and then dismissed Trengove based on the same criteria

    We have also seen Hamling and Adams choose to go elsewhere, while Boyd has retired with different issues.

    Throughout all this we have consistently played undersized in defence.

    Why would any tall choose to play under Beveridge.
    I don’t really think this is fair and there are reasons beyond selection for anyone of quality that you’ve listed for moving on. Hamling’s dad, Adams’ frustration with the medical staff, and Boyd isn’t reasonable to even bring up.

    Roughead being the possible exception (if you ignore how full on bad he was in 2017), the other guys were not AFL quality when they were delisted, which is evident from the lack of teams picking them up when they were moved on.

    Meanwhile we’ve seen Beveridge develop Naughton and English into genuine match winning key position players, and the brightest tall talent the club has probably ever seen. We’ve also invested heavily and repeatedly in free agency and at the very top of the draft during Bevo’s time in key position stock, and consistent opportunity has been given to guys like Gardner and Cordy, for better or worse, to establish themselves.

    Are we a key defender and a ruck short? Probably, if only by one guy. But I’m not gonna lose sleep over any of those names and doubt we’re really any better off with any of them in our side right now. I’m more frustrated with our inability to turn Lipinski into a consistent contributor than Marcus Adams.
    - RIP Goldstein for 2021 First - 2020-2020 -

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  10. #83
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    Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    more like 10 plus centimetres.

    The human race is getting bigger and bigger.

    The King brothers are 202,
    McKay is 204
    Tom Lynch 199
    Hawkins 198
    Himmelberg (Crows) 200
    Peter Wright 203
    Hipwood 203
    Ben Brown 200

    and then you look at Darcy at 207 which will be the new norm.

    Bont is 193cm.

    I know height isn't everything, but for me we have to start looking at a fullback around the 200cm mark who obviously can play.

    I am sick of these big forwards kicking lots of goals because our guys are pip squeaks.
    Keath = 200cm
    Gardiner = 197
    Pip-squeaks?

    Sure, they're not 210cm but they should be able to compete with the guys you've listed.

  11. #84
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    Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)

    Zach Reid still isn’t signed up at Essendon and has looked pretty good in the last few weeks. Surely he’d rather play somewhere else?
    - RIP Goldstein for 2021 First - 2020-2020 -

  12. #85
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    Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Days View Post
    Zach Reid still isn’t signed up at Essendon and has looked pretty good in the last few weeks. Surely he’d rather play somewhere else?
    They’d ask for Marra. Would you do it?
    Our 1954 premiership players are our heroes, and it has to be said that Charlie was their hero.

  13. #86
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    Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)

    Quote Originally Posted by comrade View Post
    They’d ask for Marra. Would you do it?
    No, but I feel dirty for thinking about it.

    They can’t be feeling too great that none of their haul from the Best Draft Hand Ever have re-signed.
    - RIP Goldstein for 2021 First - 2020-2020 -

  14. #87
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    Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)

    Quote Originally Posted by comrade View Post
    They’d ask for Marra. Would you do it?
    A 200 cm top ten defender.... God. No defintely not. I mean...no... Well.. Maybe.. Ah.. nope.

    I would consider another though.
    Retired from match day thread - Sep 2021 (Sometimes)

  15. #88
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    Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Days View Post
    No, but I feel dirty for thinking about it.

    They can’t be feeling too great that none of their haul from the Best Draft Hand Ever have re-signed.
    From what I've seen Perkins looks the pick of the bunch
    Retired from match day thread - Sep 2021 (Sometimes)

  16. #89
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    Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)

    Quote Originally Posted by bornadog View Post
    I don't agree with your assessment of Bevo. Bevo is looking for a particular type of tall.

    Of all the players you listed, Hamling is the one I would not have let go.

    Under Bevo the talls we have recruited are English, Naughton, Schache, Bruce, Gardner, Keath, Sweet, Martin, JUH and Darcy
    Of those
    English, Naughton, Gardner and Keath fit the mobility mantra.

    Martin was a (reluctant) concession that we needed to do something about the ruck and also a player who was more mobile (but unfortunately before we got him)

    Schache has not established himself (or been allowed to settle) due to his perceived weaknesses (lack of aggression etc, ability below his knees perhaps) - displays a lack of confidence
    Sweet has absolutely been underplayed with resulting clear issues in confidence.
    JUH is in danger of going the same way as Schache.
    Darcy is still a mystery with 1 game on managed minutes.

    You need to add Trengove, who was specifically targeted and effectively spat out due to the lack of mobility issues that also saw the demise of Roughead and Roberts.

    I agree that Bevo is looking for a particular type of tall, but it appears he wants Max Gawn with the mobility and ground skills of Marcus Bontempelli.

    He has consistently refused to play those who can't do what he wants, rather than develop a plan that makes the most of what players can do.

    EDIT
    As pointed out from my earlier post we have Lewis Young as someone recruited, who showed something but was never allowed to settle (Schache treatment) and his lack of confidence /development has seen him move on to Carlton, who despite having plenty of talls have been able to get him to play a role consistently.
    Life is to be Enjoyed not Endured

  17. #90
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    Re: List Managment thread (For 2022)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grantysghost View Post
    A 200 cm top ten defender.... God. No defintely not. I mean...no... Well.. Maybe.. Ah.. nope.

    I would consider another though.
    I would hate to see Marra explode at Essendon. Another club, I could handle if the deal was right.
    Our 1954 premiership players are our heroes, and it has to be said that Charlie was their hero.

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