List Management thread (For 2022)

[1eyedog]

I can't align stats with actual game to game feel. What I do know is the Gardner is progressing well and getting better every week. He's athletic, tall enough and good enough one on one to play on the King's and dextrous enough to follow Buddy around up the field. He has versatility.

He's also making less errors now and is actually building enough confidence to start taking marks when he can. He kicks the ball fine and has an old skool defenders mentality meaning he always plays percentages first and also seeks to reduce as much risk as possible on everything he does.

He's not a superstar but he is disciplined and has that Dale Morris-like will to be better. Still working on maintaining shape but he's an inexperienced player still who is playing on very good players week to week. I think he will be a very good defender in a year or two.

[Danjul]

So we're now meant to ignore wing-loss percent but use supercoach points instead? You always throw up stats like number of disposals as though it's the only way to judge a players contribution but when there's an actually meaningful statistic relevant to the position the player plays like how often they lose a one-on-one contest it needs "relevant context"? Surely you can just recognize that in this particular area Gardner is out-performing Young?

my comment wasn’t about how often they lose a contest.

it was about how often they are in a contest.

Surely you can see they are different things.

[Happy Days]

My criticism of the original comment was it contained a factual error.

It said more losses from less contests. That’s false.

The original comment used the error to suggest Young is not getting into the game, whereas (if my memory of the table is accurate) his involvement number of 3.2 was almost the highest in the league.

Moving to percentages doesn’t fix it.

The reality is Young had more losses from more contests.

I don’t understand how fixing that simple error before others act on it can generate so much hatred and venom. But if people must then they are free to spit it.

I also clearly said that Gardner is doing better than Young in a number of areas (not just one) so I wasn’t demeaning him as a player . But if you and others insist, I am happy to accept Gardner is much,much,much better than Young.

But it’s not false?

Young - 19 one on one contests, 7 losses
Gardner - 22 one on one contests, 6 losses

What am I missing here.

[1eyedog]

Gardner and Young are actually quite different players.

[Grantysghost]

Gardner and Young are actually quite different players.

Agree.

One good, one plays at Carlton.

[hujsh]

my comment wasn’t about how often they lose a contest.

it was about how often they are in a contest.

Surely you can see they are different things.

First of all, Happy Days stated that "Young also has a considerably worse one on one defensive winning percentage than Gardner". It was your choice to nitpick his explanation of what that means.

Your explanation of the average stats, "so Young had more of these contests and won more." also seems to be implying that Young was performing better in one-on-ones (contradicting the statistics). If your intention was different then so be it but that's not clear on it's own.

To be fair to you, you did later say "Where one is slightly ahead in some components of the game the other makes up for it elsewhere." which I missed so my previous criticism that you couldn't accept Gardner is performing better in one-one-ones was misguided.

But if your overall point is about "how often they are in a contest," then I don't think you've really articulated that particularly clearly. Nor do I really see what it proves. Young is one-on-one more often and loses them more often so Carlton's structure isn't quite working or Young is playing the wrong role in it would be my takeaway.

[Grantysghost]

Dunkley: ‘There’s no real rush’

https://www.rsn.net.au/breakfast-clu...-no-real-rush/

Western Bulldogs star Josh Dunkley is comfortable for contract talks to remain on the backburner as the season progresses.

“To be honest there hasn’t really been much update in terms of contract stuff of late and I’m comfortable with that … obviously playing footy and play my role for the team,” Dunkley told RSN’s The Breakfast Club.

“There’s no real rush on it.”

At end of the 2010 season, Dunkley requested a trade to Essendon, but the Dogs refused to budge mid-contract. That contract expires at the end of this season.

Dunkley said he was leaving it to his manager Liam Pickering and focusing on footy.

“I’ll back him in to get everything done,’’ Dunkley said.

“It’s a hard time to go through, everyone goes through contract negotiations and that’s for me just where I’m at at the moment. I’m being completely honest when I say I haven’t really had much discussion so we’ll see how it unfolds.”

[Danjul]

But it’s not false?

Young - 19 one on one contests, 7 losses
Gardner - 22 one on one contests, 6 losses

What am I missing here.

They have played a different number of games. Young started the season late and missed last week (not sure what but I did hear health protocol). I think Gardner has played all games (check my memory on that).

Your percentages were not on totals ( not false) but on game averages (false).

Young had more contests per game (true) Gardner had more contests per season (also true).

That’s why we use long term averages like in jeemak’s source. It compensates for things like games lost for things like injuries. But,as was pointed out about Sweet, it has to be long term, or one performance can distort the conclusion.

But as you clearly show here, I think they are both good players. I fully agree with you, Gardner is having a very good season. I wasn’t expecting such progress.

[EasternWest]

Dunkley: ‘There’s no real rush’

https://www.rsn.net.au/breakfast-clu...-no-real-rush/

Western Bulldogs star Josh Dunkley is comfortable for contract talks to remain on the backburner as the season progresses.

“To be honest there hasn’t really been much update in terms of contract stuff of late and I’m comfortable with that … obviously playing footy and play my role for the team,” Dunkley told RSN’s The Breakfast Club.

“There’s no real rush on it.”

At end of the 2010 season, Dunkley requested a trade to Essendon, but the Dogs refused to budge mid-contract. That contract expires at the end of this season.

Dunkley said he was leaving it to his manager Liam Pickering and focusing on footy.

“I’ll back him in to get everything done,’’ Dunkley said.

“It’s a hard time to go through, everyone goes through contract negotiations and that’s for me just where I’m at at the moment. I’m being completely honest when I say I haven’t really had much discussion so we’ll see how it unfolds.”

Jeemak likes this.

[Happy Days]

They have played a different number of games. Young started the season late and missed last week (not sure what but I did hear health protocol). I think Gardner has played all games (check my memory on that).

Your percentages were not on totals ( not false) but on game averages (false).

Young had more contests per game (true) Gardner had more contests per season (also true).

That’s why we use long term averages like in jeemak’s source. It compensates for things like games lost for things like injuries. But,as was pointed out about Sweet, it has to be long term, or one performance can distort the conclusion.

But as you clearly show here, I think they are both good players. I fully agree with you, Gardner is having a very good season. I wasn’t expecting such progress.

My percentages were on 6/22 and 7/19, more than enough for a decent sample size. Why does it matter how many games they’ve played, unless you want to look at it holistically and say that the only reason Young started late is because he couldn’t get a game ahead of Oscar McDonald.

Anyway this is getting to pissing contesty which is so unlike me.

[jeemak]

My criticism of the original comment was it contained a factual error.

It said more losses from less contests. That’s false.

The original comment used the error to suggest Young is not getting into the game, whereas (if my memory of the table is accurate) his involvement number of 3.2 was almost the highest in the league.

Moving to percentages doesn’t fix it.

The reality is Young had more losses from more contests.

I don’t understand how fixing that simple error before others act on it can generate so much hatred and venom. But if people must then they are free to spit it.

I also clearly said that Gardner is doing better than Young in a number of areas (not just one) so I wasn’t demeaning him as a player . But if you and others insist, I am happy to accept Gardner is much,much,much better than Young.

Come on mate, what you did was selectively use a few stats that don't paint the full picture in response to a post that wasn't as well articulated as it might have been but actually got the message across just fine.

There's no venom in my posts, or other posters posts and what the stats show is that Young is more prone to losing defencive contests than Gardner is by some margin. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Happy Days]

Dunkley: ‘There’s no real rush’

https://www.rsn.net.au/breakfast-clu...-no-real-rush/

Western Bulldogs star Josh Dunkley is comfortable for contract talks to remain on the backburner as the season progresses.

“To be honest there hasn’t really been much update in terms of contract stuff of late and I’m comfortable with that … obviously playing footy and play my role for the team,” Dunkley told RSN’s The Breakfast Club.

“There’s no real rush on it.”

At end of the 2010 season, Dunkley requested a trade to Essendon, but the Dogs refused to budge mid-contract. That contract expires at the end of this season.

Dunkley said he was leaving it to his manager Liam Pickering and focusing on footy.

“I’ll back him in to get everything done,’’ Dunkley said.

“It’s a hard time to go through, everyone goes through contract negotiations and that’s for me just where I’m at at the moment. I’m being completely honest when I say I haven’t really had much discussion so we’ll see how it unfolds.”

Weirdest contract negotiations ever. It’s like both parties are going way over the top to prove how chill with each other they are.

It’s definitely got me reading all the tea leaves though. He’s playing more forward, which is bad, but less relief ruck, which is good. He also celebrated a goal by high fiving the cheer squad a few weeks back, which is good, but then he didn’t do any crowd work this week. WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN???

[Danjul]

My percentages were on 6/22 and 7/19, more than enough for a decent sample size. Why does it matter how many games they’ve played, unless you want to look at it holistically and say that the only reason Young started late is because he couldn’t get a game ahead of Oscar McDonald.

Anyway this is getting to pissing contesty which is so unlike me.

In that case I was wrong.

[comrade]

Melbourne clubs informed as Fremantle defender shuts down contract negotiations

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/05/...down-contract/

Griffin Logue has put contract talks on hold at Fremantle as the in-demand defender edges closer to a move away from the club.

Sources at multiple Melbourne-based clubs said they have been informed that Logue has shut down negotiations with the Dockers until the end of the season.

It comes as the key position stopper last night expressed his frustration at a lack of game time under Justin Longmuir this year.

Logue has been dropped twice in the first nine rounds, including the week after receiving coaches votes in a Round 4 win over GWS.

“For myself it is a bit frustrating. I haven’t felt like I’ve wavered too much in terms of my own form and obviously we’re in a really good spot at the moment where we’ve got a lot of depth to build off,” Logue told Channel 9 Perth.

“Unfortunately, people are going to miss out and that’s been me a few times.”

The Dockers stand out in a marketplace crowded with clubs searching for key defenders. Alex Pearce, Heath Chapman, Brennan Cox, Joel Hamling and Logue are all fighting over key position spots.

West Australian Logue said he wanted to stay at Fremantle, but the 24-year-old is also prepared to hear what other clubs have to offer ahead of the trade period.

“I’ll let that sort itself out. For now, it’s a pretty simple focus on playing the best footy I can personally, but more so as a team to see where we can take it,” Logue said last night.

A No.8 pick in the 2016 national draft, Logue played his 50th game in the loss to Gold Coast last weekend

I likey.

[GVGjr]

I can't align stats with actual game to game feel. What I do know is the Gardner is progressing well and getting better every week. He's athletic, tall enough and good enough one on one to play on the King's and dextrous enough to follow Buddy around up the field. He has versatility.

He's also making less errors now and is actually building enough confidence to start taking marks when he can. He kicks the ball fine and has an old skool defenders mentality meaning he always plays percentages first and also seeks to reduce as much risk as possible on everything he does.

He's not a superstar but he is disciplined and has that Dale Morris-like will to be better. Still working on maintaining shape but he's an inexperienced player still who is playing on very good players week to week. I think he will be a very good defender in a year or two.

He seems to get better each year. Really happy with the way he is progressing.