List Management thread (For 2022)

[GVGjr]

I don't disagree MM but after using essentially all of our draft capital on JUH and Darcy surely we MUST DRAFT this year....

Where is our young depth? We have seen a snippet of Bedendo and a little more of Cleary but...what else ya got? Where are the up and coming mids, running defenders, developing high-half-forwards learning how to get up and back?

We have a unique opportunity at the moment to actually teach young players how to play - they will learn (a lot) off the likes of Macrae and Dunks and Treloar and Bont and....and...we have to take advantage of that.

Agree that we need to use some draft picks to keep the talented youngsters coming in. It appears Jones will be a bit of a freebie for us so if we can get a decent deal from Freo for Lobb we will probably make that bid.
There is speculation that Hunter and Williams might be looking to move so assuming we get something decent in return we could have a few picks this year and reinvesting in some younger talent.

[josie]

Anything known where Williams might want to go? Wonder what he is worth. His role on wing has rejuvenated him, especially his role in Melbourne game.

[Bulldog4life]

Agree that we need to use some draft picks to keep the talented youngsters coming in. It appears Jones will be a bit of a freebie for us so if we can get a decent deal from Freo for Lobb we will probably make that bid.
There is speculation that Hunter and Williams might be looking to move so assuming we get something decent in return we could have a few picks this year and reinvesting in some younger talent.

I must be out of the loop G. I haven't read this anywhere. Where did you get it from?

[GVGjr]

I must be out of the loop G. I haven't read this anywhere. Where did you get it from?

It's just speculation that has been floating around. The speculation is Hunter might be keen on a move to Essendon, not sure about Williams.

[1eyedog]

Agree that we need to use some draft picks to keep the talented youngsters coming in. It appears Jones will be a bit of a freebie for us so if we can get a decent deal from Freo for Lobb we will probably make that bid.
There is speculation that Hunter and Williams might be looking to move so assuming we get something decent in return we could have a few picks this year and reinvesting in some younger talent.

I mean we do, but how about a really good experienced CHB (not incl. Jones a free stop gap), a really, really good crumb forward (missed out on Stengle but who is good that may be prized out?). Love Rankine but he'll probably go home, but on a big money offer would he? Think if Hunter goes we need a replacement, that could be Macrae on a wing providing opportunities in the middle for Adz, Westy. Critical that we keep one of Dunks or Smith, preferably both but I feel Dunks is gone.

With the list we got, I'm ok with turning our back on the draft for a year or two and having a crack to buy a flag in the next 1-3 years. If we're going to do that though we need to buy a really good key defensive player in his mid-20s and a good opportunistic forward on the return we get from Hunter / Dunkley / Smith.

It's not draft at all costs for me from here.

[GVGjr]

I mean we do, but how about a really good experienced CHB (not incl. Jones a free stop gap), a really, really good crumb forward (missed out on Stengle but who is good that may be prized out?). Love Rankine but he'll probably go home, but on a big money offer would he? Think if Hunter goes we need a replacement, that could be Macrae on a wing providing opportunities in the middle for Adz, Westy. Critical that we keep one of Dunks or Smith, preferably both but I feel Dunks is gone.

With the list we got, I'm ok with turning our back on the draft for a year or two and having a crack to buy a flag in the next 1-3 years. If we're going to do that though we need to buy a really good key defensive player in his mid-20s and a good opportunistic forward on the return we get from Hunter / Dunkley / Smith.

It's not draft at all costs for me from here.

This is where an honest and accurate assessment of the playing list and the character of this group needs to factor into a decision to step back from the draft and have an all out crack at it. The club needs to make an informed decision and not just think that say adding Jones and Lobb will make as a genuine top 4 side if that really isn't the case.

If Jones is a freebie for us it sort of makes sense although a year out might really work against him.
If Freo is reasonable with their requirements to trade Lobb and Lobb isn't going to break the bank for us to bring him in then okay that makes some sense as well.
I'm seeing some gaps in the list though that I really think need to be balanced more by the draft table than 3 or 4 trade scenario's.

It will be interesting to see if the club could commit to an all out crack at the next 2 seasons or if they will take the safer option of a more balanced trade and draft strategy.

[The Doctor]

surely we MUST DRAFT this year....

Where is our young depth?

I'd like to pick this up and run with it as I agree. In fact I posted in another thread recently that we should even consider splitting our first round pick in order to add more young depth to our squad.

Since our premiership in 2016 there have been 6 trade/draft periods. The following has happened in terms of player acquisitions;

- Only 10 youngsters recruited in the top 40 of any of these drafts
- Only 3 youngsters in the last 3 drafts in the top 40
- 24 youngsters overall recruited of which 17 remain.


I'll break it down further

* Of the 10 youngsters recruited in the top 40 since 2016, 9 remain, they are an excellent batch;

English, Naughton, Richards, Smith, West, Vandermeer, Weightman, Ugle-Hagen, Darcy.

Lipinski traded in 2021.

That, on paper as some are still emerging, looks like a mighty future core if we can keep them together.
Only problem is. No specialist key defenders.

* Of the 24 youngsters recruited overall of which 17 remain, 9 are included above, the others are;

Khamis, Butler, Garcia, Bedendo, McNeill, Jones, Cleary, Raak

Lewis Young & Lachie Young were traded, Tweedie, Greene, Mullenger McHugh, Porter were delisted

Once again no key defenders.

* In summary in the last 6 trade draft periods we have remaining on our list

9 x high end draftees (picked inside top 40)
8 x draftees acquired later in the national or rookies drafts
No key defenders
Only 3 high end picks in last 3 drafts

It just goes to show the value of high level draft picks. Our selections have been on the money but overall it's a low number in my view. Our list strategy has come up short on key defenders. This is the draft where we must do it. We have probably over relied on trade acquisitions and recruiting mature agers from state leagues in this same period.

Our current crop of key defenders; Keath, Cordy, Gardner are fair players respectively but none were high end selections. Adding Jones might help short term but does nothing for the medium longer term.

Adding young key defenders to emerge while we have such quality high end key position players who are still young is essential for our future prosperity and the opportunity of sustained success.

I would like to add a genuine small/medium forward or two to our must get list as well! I won't go into that now as I have been on about it for about 4 years!

[EasternWest]

Sydney realestate is next level though.

Alright so just a Bondi apartment then.

[bornadog]

Good summary Doc? Where does Sweet fit in?

I agree we need to draft some Key Pos Defenders but we should also be recruiting some young ruckman - at least in the rookie draft.

[The Doctor]

Good summary Doc? Where does Sweet fit in?

I agree we need to draft some Key Pos Defenders but we should also be recruiting some young ruckman - at least in the rookie draft.

I included Sweet in the mature age state league players as he had played a couple of seasons on the SANFL prior to being rookie drafted. My Draftees were teenagers hence the inclusion of McNeill.

We can look deeper into the list and work out other areas of future need for sure. I put KP Defenders as a matter of priority.

[1eyedog]

I'd like to pick this up and run with it as I agree. In fact I posted in another thread recently that we should even consider splitting our first round pick in order to add more young depth to our squad.

Since our premiership in 2016 there have been 6 trade/draft periods. The following has happened in terms of player acquisitions;

- Only 10 youngsters recruited in the top 40 of any of these drafts
- Only 3 youngsters in the last 3 drafts in the top 40
- 24 youngsters overall recruited of which 17 remain.


I'll break it down further

* Of the 10 youngsters recruited in the top 40 since 2016, 9 remain, they are an excellent batch;

English, Naughton, Richards, Smith, West, Vandermeer, Weightman, Ugle-Hagen, Darcy.

Lipinski traded in 2021.

That, on paper as some are still emerging, looks like a mighty future core if we can keep them together.
Only problem is. No specialist key defenders.

* Of the 24 youngsters recruited overall of which 17 remain, 9 are included above, the others are;

Khamis, Butler, Garcia, Bedendo, McNeill, Jones, Cleary, Raak

Lewis Young & Lachie Young were traded, Tweedie, Greene, Mullenger McHugh, Porter were delisted

Once again no key defenders.

* In summary in the last 6 trade draft periods we have remaining on our list

9 x high end draftees (picked inside top 40)
8 x draftees acquired later in the national or rookies drafts
No key defenders
Only 3 high end picks in last 3 drafts

It just goes to show the value of high level draft picks. Our selections have been on the money but overall it's a low number in my view. Our list strategy has come up short on key defenders. This is the draft where we must do it. We have probably over relied on trade acquisitions and recruiting mature agers from state leagues in this same period.

Our current crop of key defenders; Keath, Cordy, Gardner are fair players respectively but none were high end selections. Adding Jones might help short term but does nothing for the medium longer term.

Adding young key defenders to emerge while we have such quality high end key position players who are still young is essential for our future prosperity and the opportunity of sustained success.

I would like to add a genuine small/medium forward or two to our must get list as well! I won't go into that now as I have been on about it for about 4 years!

This is a great assessment and overall summary of the success of our trading strategy across the last 5 years. I'm a bit different on it. By the time these new draftees are ready to play (3/4 years for KPP to impact you'd think?) Bont will be 30, Macrae 32, Treloar 33 and Daniel and Dale 30 with Keath, Libba and Bruce obviously long gone. Treloar will probably be gone as well. And who are the quality young KPP players you're referring to in our back half, or do you mean Naughton and Jamarra? Maybe Darcy as a CHB?

I'm really hoping to maximise Bont's Goldilocks zone as a 25-28 year old in particular by bringing quality players into our areas of need i.e. a quality mid-20s key defender and a quality mid-20s crumbing forward (as a guide). Happy to use our high draft picks to secure them. For me, given the quality of our list right now and the few glaring holes we have, the time to do this is now. The draft is too conservative for where we are with our list imo. I'm not talking about taking a Geelong-like trade strategy I want the club to go hard with decent coin and decent picks on very specific players who will play at the club at a high level for 5 years. Are these types available / gettable? Let's see but we'll need to give something great to get something great.

I'm not debating the value of high draft picks with an eye to the long term but I'd prefer to be aggressive now and sit in the bottom half of the ladder in 4/5 years if an aggressive trade strategy gets us another look or two at another Premiership in the next 1-4 years. There is also high value in Treloar-like trades as well and I'd prefer not to wait until Bont et al. are 30+ to determine whether our 2022 draft crop are going to be any good or not.

I guess I want the club to roll the dice and jag another one rather than worry about where we are on the ladder in 5 years when our stars light is fading. This is the best list I've ever seen.

For the record I am a 100% advocate for drafting and developing our own and am going out on a limb here.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Good posts by Doc and 1ED.

There's a chance we can do both - the whole chew gum and walk at the same time philosophy.

If we have a draft pick in the top 10 (most likely) we could split this for 2 picks, or simply draft the best possible kid along with acquiring Lobb/Jones and hopefully something else.

[bornadog]

Good posts by Doc and 1ED.

There's a chance we can do both - the whole chew gum and walk at the same time philosophy.

If we have a draft pick in the top 10 (most likely) we could split this for 2 picks, or simply draft the best possible kid along with acquiring Lobb/Jones and hopefully something else.

I don't know who is out there, but can we use our pick 1 to secure a 25/26 year old CHB? or grab a De Goey type who will kick goals.

[EasternWest]

I don't know who is out there, but can we use our pick 1 to secure a 25/26 year old CHB? or grab a De Goey type who will kick goals.

If we even consider de Goey I'm out.

[GVGjr]

Good posts by Doc and 1ED.

There's a chance we can do both - the whole chew gum and walk at the same time philosophy.

If we have a draft pick in the top 10 (most likely) we could split this for 2 picks, or simply draft the best possible kid along with acquiring Lobb/Jones and hopefully something else.

I tend to think we can do both but I'd really like to think through the option of splitting the first round pick.
Is potentially passing over a likely A grader for likely two B graders a good idea for us?
It could very well be but it's doesn't necessarily mean you resolve gaps in the list.

When we split the pick and passed over Curnow in 2015 and got Dunkley and Collins we didn't really maximise the extra pick. Had Sydney matched that pick I think we would have gone for Marcus Adams and Collins.

Are we more likely to get value out of a top 10 pick than two in the mid 20's?
Would we be better served trying to move up the draft order?

Our whole list strategy for us really depends on what is happening with Dunkley and potentially Smith and if there is any substance to the Hunter and Williams speculation that they might want to explore other clubs.

There is a bit to play out here but plenty of options to consider.