Honest reflection and the path forward

[bornadog]

Which tough decisions have been made in Chris's tenure?

I know it's hard to know what happens behind closed doors, but it seems not a lot has changed in his time as the footy boss.

Trading Stringer, Dahlhaus for starters.

[Rocco Jones]

Not saying this is everything but the club has made two Grand Finals and won a flag in Grant's six years as Footy Director. The true definition of being conservative is about staying on a path that's worked. I understand frustrations, however I can also understand why he would be conservative.

We're a bloody weird club to follow in the Bevo/Grant years. As frustrating as it can get whilst delivering success like no other era in the club's history.

[Grantysghost]

Not saying this is everything but the club has made two Grand Finals and won a flag in Grant's six years as Footy Director. The true definition of being conservative is about staying on a path that's worked. I understand frustrations, however I can also understand why he would be conservative.

We're a bloody weird club to follow in the Bevo/Grant years. As frustrating as it can get whilst delivering success like no other era in the club's history.

Maintaining the status quo pretty much. Conserve.

Unless it's the climate and "conserve" ation with many "conserve" atives.

But yes spot on. Why would he disrupt when things overall have been very good.

There is an old business adage that standing still is going backwards too.

I'm not sure which part we fit into youre so right when you say it's a strange era. The best strange ever!

[Rocco Jones]

I’m not defending Grant/club btw. Just raising a point. If we won a flag and had 5 ACLs in that year, I’d hope we’d look into why we had so many.

[mjp]

I think we are all frustrated (I would put another word in front of frustrated to describe how I'm feeling) and I have honestly felt that way since the midway point of last year...and for the majority of 2018/19/20. Yes, we made the GF last year - a magnificent effort - but it really was achieved on the back of two outstanding performances (BL and PA) after what have been 2+ months of 'ordinary'.

Our challenges as a team are as follows:
- There are times when our effort is not up to scratch and we lose.
Think, finals against the Saints and Giants, game in Ballarat vs Adelaide, the Peter Wright game last year, Carlton game in 2020 etc.

- There are times when our effort is generally MAGNIFICENT and our structural shortcomings mean we still fall short.
Think, Geelong last year, Port in Adelaide the year before.

I don't think there is actually anything we can do about the second point. Our draft capital has been severely restricted the past two years due to the Darcy/JUH selections. We HAD to take those players - I get it - but it has hurt the 'now'. I don't want to re-legislate the Steph Martin selection but I still see it as I did at the time - a massive mistake to recruit a player so far past his prime - even so, I wonder what would have happened had we selected another player...would we be playing him? What if we HAD chased someone to back-up Keath? Would we all be pulling our hair out because a backup KPD isn't up to it and is conceding goals?

The first point though? If we had the effort we got on Friday night against Adelaide, well...we beat Adelaide. This is the one that I'm battling with. Why does it take a situation like that - Bont out, Hunter out etc - for the players to acknowledge they really need to bring effort level "A+".

Part of me is VERY encouraged by the effort last Friday - we could very easily have turned up our toes and conceded...they players fought to the very end and if they can sustain that, it will hold them in good stead moving forward...the other part of me? We just lack depth in key areas. No side can cover for a Bontempelli being out...but we HAVE to be able to cover for Tim O'Brien. Will we be able to do that? I guess we are about to find out.

[Mantis]

Trading Stringer, Dahlhaus for starters.

I would've thought they were no brainers given the level of performances (extremely low) and disruption they caused within the group.

Keep going....

[azabob]

Have Treloar and Dunkley stood up enough week to week?

Especially considering Bontempelli has played a few games forward and missed one entirely.

I think it is also very evident that Bontepelli is our most important player ahead of English, Keath and Naughton.

[Grantysghost]

Have Treloar and Dunkley stood up enough week to week?

Especially considering Bontempelli has played a few games forward and missed one entirely.

I think it is also very evident that Bontepelli is our most important player ahead of English, Keath and Naughton.

Treloar for mine has been a dissapointment (ok qualify it by he's been good not great) . We've converted him to purely outside (he's certainly lost weight) and I'm not sure that's all he's capable of.
This guy should be making AA sides. Not sure he ever has.

Dunkley.... Maybe he's already peaked. This is what you get and it's pretty good but he's a B grade at best. Luke Parker type. Hard to complain about that.

[macca]

I think we are all frustrated (I would put another word in front of frustrated to describe how I'm feeling) and I have honestly felt that way since the midway point of last year...and for the majority of 2018/19/20. Yes, we made the GF last year - a magnificent effort - but it really was achieved on the back of two outstanding performances (BL and PA) after what have been 2+ months of 'ordinary'.

Our challenges as a team are as follows:
- There are times when our effort is not up to scratch and we lose.
Think, finals against the Saints and Giants, game in Ballarat vs Adelaide, the Peter Wright game last year, Carlton game in 2020 etc.

- There are times when our effort is generally MAGNIFICENT and our structural shortcomings mean we still fall short.
Think, Geelong last year, Port in Adelaide the year before.

I don't think there is actually anything we can do about the second point. Our draft capital has been severely restricted the past two years due to the Darcy/JUH selections. We HAD to take those players - I get it - but it has hurt the 'now'. I don't want to re-legislate the Steph Martin selection but I still see it as I did at the time - a massive mistake to recruit a player so far past his prime - even so, I wonder what would have happened had we selected another player...would we be playing him? What if we HAD chased someone to back-up Keath? Would we all be pulling our hair out because a backup KPD isn't up to it and is conceding goals?

The first point though? If we had the effort we got on Friday night against Adelaide, well...we beat Adelaide. This is the one that I'm battling with. Why does it take a situation like that - Bont out, Hunter out etc - for the players to acknowledge they really need to bring effort level "A+".

Part of me is VERY encouraged by the effort last Friday - we could very easily have turned up our toes and conceded...they players fought to the very end and if they can sustain that, it will hold them in good stead moving forward...the other part of me? We just lack depth in key areas. No side can cover for a Bontempelli being out...but we HAVE to be able to cover for Tim O'Brien. Will we be able to do that? I guess we are about to find out.

I am frustrated, but more lamenting how terrible complex getting players on the park ( injuries have been really bad luck) and in form is nowdays. If you told me last year that Carlton will be a top 4 team this year, it would be easiest joke to laugh at.

We have lost some good mature players during in that 2016 era : Morris, Picken, Hamling , Roughead ( subjective about good) , Clay smith ( scared daylights opposition ) , Jong (beast) , Suckling ( long kicks) , some of them would be in their prime now like Hamling, Roughead, Smith, Jong if injuries did not hit them. Injuries to our KPD has been terrible and the cupboard is truly bare.

Its the 3-4 year players on the list which are not filling the talent void mixed with senior players like Treloar, Dunkley not being able to dominate games in absence of Champ Bonts last week as an example. Freo is interesting example , they doing well now with their younger crop of players, Its extraordinary they lost Cerra . It this age range of players which will bring improvement on our list.

I am going to write this season off now and its time MC looks at who should be on the list for 2023 and test all them out.


The JUH and Darcy picks might just hurt as we could have used those picks to get quality in the mid field. All this is just pure speculation and easy to talk in hindsight , as recruiting is an inexact science and player development is complex.

I want to see Buku play forward for the rest of the season and play in one position.

I want to see West get a solid string of games to see if he can stay on our list .

I want to see Schache down back and stay there in one position.

Bedendo, Cleary, Parker, get a few games into them this year, to show them where they are at and what gap they need to bridge.

Mid season recruitment- find a good ruckman somewhere in the WAFL, VFL, QAFL ... there has to be someone available ? Can we use a pick here ?

[bornadog]

I would've thought they were no brainers given the level of performances (extremely low) and disruption they caused within the group.

Keep going....

Still a big decision to let go premiership players with their talent. Many clubs wouldn't.

I can't keep going because, what other decisions needed to be made? I Don't have any insight into the footy dept.

[Grantysghost]

Still a big decision to let go premiership players with their talent. Many clubs wouldn't.

I can't keep going because, what other decisions needed to be made? I Don't have any insight into the footy dept.

Vflw does anyone know what's going on there. Is that under Grant's portfolio?
It's an incredible failure.

[bornadog]

Vflw does anyone know what's going on there. Is that under Grant's portfolio?
It's an incredible failure.

That is under Debbie Lee

[Grantysghost]

That is under Debbie Lee

I don't get how it can happen. My local side is the best in the west atm it's not that hard to recruit decent players.

[Grantysghost]

That is under Debbie Lee

Actually I think she reports to Chris.

[FrediKanoute]

I think we are all frustrated (I would put another word in front of frustrated to describe how I'm feeling) and I have honestly felt that way since the midway point of last year...and for the majority of 2018/19/20. Yes, we made the GF last year - a magnificent effort - but it really was achieved on the back of two outstanding performances (BL and PA) after what have been 2+ months of 'ordinary'.

Our challenges as a team are as follows:
- There are times when our effort is not up to scratch and we lose.
Think, finals against the Saints and Giants, game in Ballarat vs Adelaide, the Peter Wright game last year, Carlton game in 2020 etc.

- There are times when our effort is generally MAGNIFICENT and our structural shortcomings mean we still fall short.
Think, Geelong last year, Port in Adelaide the year before.

I don't think there is actually anything we can do about the second point. Our draft capital has been severely restricted the past two years due to the Darcy/JUH selections. We HAD to take those players - I get it - but it has hurt the 'now'. I don't want to re-legislate the Steph Martin selection but I still see it as I did at the time - a massive mistake to recruit a player so far past his prime - even so, I wonder what would have happened had we selected another player...would we be playing him? What if we HAD chased someone to back-up Keath? Would we all be pulling our hair out because a backup KPD isn't up to it and is conceding goals?

The first point though? If we had the effort we got on Friday night against Adelaide, well...we beat Adelaide. This is the one that I'm battling with. Why does it take a situation like that - Bont out, Hunter out etc - for the players to acknowledge they really need to bring effort level "A+".

Part of me is VERY encouraged by the effort last Friday - we could very easily have turned up our toes and conceded...they players fought to the very end and if they can sustain that, it will hold them in good stead moving forward...the other part of me? We just lack depth in key areas. No side can cover for a Bontempelli being out...but we HAVE to be able to cover for Tim O'Brien. Will we be able to do that? I guess we are about to find out.

I agree MJP and think what you have said makes a lot of sense. The caveat though is that its not just covering O'Brien, its covering Keath as well as O'Brien. You run through the injury list and all are arguably best 25 or just about (Darcy excepted). We aren't just reaching to our 25th or 26th player, but we are reaching way down into our 30th and 31st player. That's touch to cover.

I too like the endeavour- could easily have rolled over in the last 10 mins and lost the game by 40 or 50 points.