Honest reflection and the path forward

[1eyedog]

I don't trust this team because frankly I don't trust Bevo. Not saying he needs to go but for a senior AFL coach his best and worst are miles apart.

[Bulldog Joe]

I don't trust this team because frankly I don't trust Bevo. Not saying he needs to go but for a senior AFL coach his best and worst are miles apart.

Complete agreement on Bevo.

I want a consistent winning culture that performs at least 90 per cent of the time.

[1eyedog]

Complete agreement on Bevo.

I want a consistent winning culture that performs at least 90 per cent of the time.

There are just too many windows where the opposition can score easily and quickly and this has been happening since 2017.

Not sure Schache or Sweet will fix that.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I don't trust this team because frankly I don't trust Bevo. Not saying he needs to go but for a senior AFL coach his best and worst are miles apart.

It's funny - Bevo is still an icon in my mind, but I'm ready for the 'next' coach/stage as I really don't rate him tactically.

[Bulldog Joe]

There are just too many windows where the opposition can score easily and quickly and this has been happening since 2017.

Not sure Schache or Sweet will fix that.

I don't believe it is personnel based. The problem is the game plan, which is why it keeps happening EVERY YEAR.

[mjp]

I think Bevo is great in ALL areas except one.

Team selection is basically 'BINGO' with us and I still remember when he was first in charge (2015) and every week I would shake my head in wonder at the selections - yet 99% of those selections showed he had pulled the 'right' rein and everything was fine.

I have continued to shake my head in wonder at the selections but so many of them seem to end up being ineffective. I felt like I was one of few who was behind the Gardner selections in 2019/2020 because I thought (as per my post earlier that BAD re-posted in this thread) that we needed 2x key defenders, 2x key forwards, 2x rucks + a utility...but at the same time I understood the frustration with that selection due to the inexperience/nervousness of his play.

Whilst I DO understand the MC's reluctance to play Sweet or Martin alongside English due to their inability to play anywhere but RUCK (it seriously kills rotations) but do agree with the posters on here who think it is just 'time' to give such a structure an extended look...I mean, at this point, what have we actually got to lose??

[MrMahatma]

I'm genuinely shocked that people think Bevo should go, (or even it should be considered...) half a season after making a GF, and we're still in the mix for finals this year - and we've had a horrible injury list so far this season. Like it or not, that injury toll hurts our performance.

I get annoyed with some selections and dead set reckon there are a few players on our list who really shouldn't be... but, in reality, I'm just a fan (I mean...I'm really, REALLY, smart and probably better looking than Bevo...can't grow a tash that well though...) but he does know much, much more about footy and coaching and being the head of a club than any of us.

I'm still not sure why Sam Power doesn't cop any heat on this forum. So much frustration but Bevo can only pick from the players we have on the list. Who's the list manager? (And, I actually think Power does a decent enough job as we've kept the stars on our list... and as I've said on other threads, I reckon our hands have been somewhat tied the past couple of years as we've brought in elite youth).

It's like Bevo gets few credits for taking us to a GF last year (something he did) and gets all the heat for the balance of our list (which he doesn't 100% control... I'm sure he influences it).

"In Bevo we trust"... right?!

[bornadog]

I'm genuinely shocked that people think Bevo should go, (or even it should be considered...) half a season after making a GF, and we're still in the mix for finals this year - and we've had a horrible injury list so far this season. Like it or not, that injury toll hurts our performance.

I get annoyed with some selections and dead set reckon there are a few players on our list who really shouldn't be... but, in reality, I'm just a fan (I mean...I'm really, REALLY, smart and probably better looking than Bevo...can't grow a tash that well though...) but he does know much, much more about footy and coaching and being the head of a club than any of us.

I'm still not sure why Sam Power doesn't cop any heat on this forum. So much frustration but Bevo can only pick from the players we have on the list. Who's the list manager? (And, I actually think Power does a decent enough job as we've kept the stars on our list... and as I've said on other threads, I reckon our hands have been somewhat tied the past couple of years as we've brought in elite youth).

It's like Bevo gets few credits for taking us to a GF last year (something he did) and gets all the heat for the balance of our list (which he doesn't 100% control... I'm sure he influences it).

"In Bevo we trust"... right?!

I don't understand it either when you look at Bevo's record at 56.5% win ratio

2015 - Elimination final lost by 5 points
2016 -Premiership
2017 - 11 wins 11 losses missed finals by a game after devasted by injuries and forced to play the youngest team in AFL in the second half of the year.
2018 - Mini Rebuild, and played as the youngest team all year
2019 - Elimination final, beaten by eventual grand finalist
2020 - Elimination final , lost by 3 points
2021 - Grand Final
2022 - to be decided.

Queue all the posters - can't blame injury, can't blame young inexperienced players. Well facts are facts, you need your best team on the park eg Melbourne last year only one injury - Tomlinson

Every team has a list problem of some sort and we are no different.

"In Bevo we trust"... right?! Bloody oath right

[GVGjr]

I'm genuinely shocked that people think Bevo should go, (or even it should be considered...) half a season after making a GF, and we're still in the mix for finals this year - and we've had a horrible injury list so far this season. Like it or not, that injury toll hurts our performance.

I get annoyed with some selections and dead set reckon there are a few players on our list who really shouldn't be... but, in reality, I'm just a fan (I mean...I'm really, REALLY, smart and probably better looking than Bevo...can't grow a tash that well though...) but he does know much, much more about footy and coaching and being the head of a club than any of us.

I'm still not sure why Sam Power doesn't cop any heat on this forum. So much frustration but Bevo can only pick from the players we have on the list. Who's the list manager? (And, I actually think Power does a decent enough job as we've kept the stars on our list... and as I've said on other threads, I reckon our hands have been somewhat tied the past couple of years as we've brought in elite youth).

It's like Bevo gets few credits for taking us to a GF last year (something he did) and gets all the heat for the balance of our list (which he doesn't 100% control... I'm sure he influences it).

"In Bevo we trust"... right?!

I'm definitely not calling for Bevo to be moved on but I guess the roller coaster of form is the catalyst for the discussion.
I think the way Bevo has handled the media is in a way also opening the door for some additional scrutiny.
The list management strategy question you ask is an interesting one. How much say does Bevo have in it might help determine things.

Has the investment in Marra and Darcy over the last 2 years gummed up the works for the list managers might be worth considering.

It's still early days and if we win 3 or 4 in a row, we will start looking ahead more than in the rear view mirror.

[Bullies]

It's funny - Bevo is still an icon in my mind, but I'm ready for the 'next' coach/stage as I really don't rate him tactically.

If Bevo bit the bullet and got an asst coach in who was very good tactically you would find a lot of our problems would be solved. Ideally we need someone who doesn't make him feel insecure and has no intention of coaching the team. Judging by our game plan none of the current coaches are game day tacticians either or if they are they are just not listened to. Webb is supposed to be good with the players with his teachings(McCartney type), Sphanger has had no experience so hard to make a call.

[mjp]

2017 - 11 wins 11 losses missed finals by a game after devasted by injuries and forced to play the youngest team in AFL in the second half of the year.
2018 - Mini Rebuild, and played as the youngest team all year
2019 - Elimination final, beaten by eventual grand finalist
2020 - Elimination final , lost by 3 points
2021 - Grand Final
2022 - to be decided.

...

"In Bevo we trust"... right?! Bloody oath right

BAD, you KNOW I love Bevo and I ride with the "In BEVO WE TRUST" line, but let's go easy on the "FORCED TO PLAY THE YOUNGEST LIST" stuff...we made decisions - they were 100% decisions - to leave out experienced players and put younger players IN during 2017 and 2018. And if you are trying to tell me the 2019 and 2020 elimination final losses were anything other than abject disappointments then I'm going to argue - GWS smashed us/bashed us which was 100% predictable to the point posters on here were saying they would do it (and we were not prepared) and in 2019 we simply were not ready to play vs the Saints, got jumped, there were a heap of acts that were 'not team' and yep, we lost by 3-points but PER-LEASE!

Bevo has been 100% amazing but it doesn't mean supporters - and there are a heap of people commenting who throw their hard earned at the club and for not much in return in recent times - can't offer a counter opinion from time to time. What else in life are we able to be this passionate about?

[jeemak]

I am not sure of the wasting of talent. I never get that argument. Do we over rate our list? Yes we have a sprinkling of elite players but so do other teams. It is extremely difficult to win a premiership, thus winning one is a bloody good achievement. Since our premiership only 3 teams have won the flag - thus 15 haven’t. Some of those teams have bloody talented lists but like us also have weaknesses. Look at Geelong - haven’t won a flag since 2011 yet have Danger, Tomahawk, Stewart, Cameron on their list. Port Adelaide with Gray, Boak, Jonas, Vines have zilch. West Coast with JK, Gaff, Sheed, Shuey also the one. Like these teams we have out and out stars but to win a flag you need a squad of 26 to 30 players performing well over a period of time without injuries. What I am trying to say here is that it is not necessarily a waste of talent because we haven’t won more flags. Sure we all want more, but to have won a flag is an awesome achievement. I get what you are saying and it shows that we are hungry for more success. Maybe the fact that we have never had such talented players at our disposal makes it harder to cop.

To be frank we have had a poor run with injuries over the last 12 months. This has clearly impacted our performance as well as some psychological scars and maybe some poor selections (both trade and game day) have contributed to our lack of success. In saying that I feel confident about the future, post 2022. We have some talent coming through we just need to make sure we draft for our needs. Still think we can snag a flag or two in Bonts window of opportunity.

Great post.

[bornadog]

BAD, you KNOW I love Bevo and I ride with the "In BEVO WE TRUST" line, but let's go easy on the "FORCED TO PLAY THE YOUNGEST LIST" stuff...we made decisions - they were 100% decisions - to leave out experienced players and put younger players IN during 2017 and 2018.

How we forget

Injuries and why we played young players

From May 2017

Player	Injury	Estimated Return
Travis Cloke	Broken ribs	1-2 weeks
Josh Dunkley	Shoulder	12-14 weeks
Patrick Lipinski	Collarbone	3-4 weeks
Brad Lynch	Hamstring	2-3 weeks
Dale Morris	Leg	1-2 weeks
Jordan Roughead	Hamstring	Test
Roarke Smith	Knee	Season
Jake Stringer	Knee	2-3 weeks

June 2017

Player	Injury	Estimated Return
Marcus Adams	Foot	10-11 weeks
Tom Boyd	Calf	Test
Travis Cloke	Mental health	Indefinite
Stewart Crameri	Hip	Season
Josh Dunkley	Shoulder	6-7 weeks
Fergus Greene	Wrist	5-6 weeks
Lin Jong	Knee	Season
Tom Liberatore	Cork	1 week
Robert Murphy	Hamstring	Test
Liam Picken	Knee	Test
Roarke Smith	Knee	Season
Updated: Thursday, June 29

By 2018 we had either traded, delisted or retired 10 Grand final players and could only play young players

And if you are trying to tell me the 2019 and 2020 elimination final losses were anything other than abject disappointments !

Not at all. I am saying we made finals, that is all. Bevo got us in the finals in those years.

Bevo has been 100% amazing but it doesn't mean supporters - and there are a heap of people commenting who throw their hard earned at the club and for not much in return in recent times - can't offer a counter opinion from time to time. What else in life are we able to be this passionate about?

I haven't bagged anyone that has an opinion on the coach. I am merely giving you an alternative view.

Always easy to bag the coach, but I think players must take responsibility for the losses this year. The players we have had available are not all in best 22 and we have to make do.

[mjp]

Trading players out so you can ‘only’ play young players is 100% a choice.

Why did Roughead have to go? Dahlhaus? Adams was injury related I guess (wanted greener pastures) but we delisted Roberts and traded Hamling...we CHOSE to do those things. Trengove in the 2’s, the list goes on. Boyd was also retired too soon after his final season was wrecked by concussion...from All Australian half back to discarded in basically 6 weeks.

We CHOSE to be young. Maybe it was the rebuild we had to have etc (and no doubt Boyd shocked US) but...

[bornadog]

Trading players out so you can ‘only’ play young players is 100% a choice.

Why did Roughead have to go? Dahlhaus? Adams was injury related I guess (wanted greener pastures) but we delisted Roberts and traded Hamling...we CHOSE to do those things. Trengove in the 2’s, the list goes on. Boyd was also retired too soon after his final season was wrecked by concussion...from All Australian half back to discarded in basically 6 weeks.

We CHOSE to be young. Maybe it was the rebuild we had to have etc (and no doubt Boyd shocked US) but...

ok I get your point but we still ended up with a very young team. We know that teams that inexperienced don’t win games ant that is why we missed finals. I agree withJeemak, it was a mini rebuild for the future