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  1. #76
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    Re: AFL club Western Bulldogs rocked by historical child sexual abuse scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Grantysghost View Post
    I guess the victims would have to arrange that prior? Like a class action v the Dogs. The legal experts on here could tell us.

    As for the end goal, inflicting pain on the club, inflicts pain on the members which is a community of people who leverage the club to give them some distraction from the every day.

    It would be insane to bring it down. Surely our record re gambling, community health etc puts us in good stead?
    We would do a pre-pack liquidation and allow the Footscray Football Club Pty Ltd to go into liquidation and sell/novate everything to The New FFC Pty Ltd.

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  3. #77
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    Re: AFL club Western Bulldogs rocked by historical child sexual abuse scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by FrediKanoute View Post
    Just playing Devil's advocate here as I agree to some extent with what you are saying:

    Governance - what governance structures existed in the 80's to do with safeguarding across sporting clubs generally. I am pretty certain that there were never rules requiring police checks or not being alone with children or rules about physical contact etc. So if there were no rules/guidelines etc for the club to abide by, how have they failed in their duty?

    Process Failure - again putting your 1980's hat on what process should we have had that we didn't have? If there was no established governance/whistleblowing processes, how have we failed in process.

    I have no doubt that the person has been damaged, but when we talk in terms of Governance/Process, we are applying 2023 concepts to the reality of life in the 1980s and that is revisionism on a large scale.

    Had this action been taken in 1993 when the individual was arrested and jailed what would the compensation payout have been? I doubt it would have been anywhere near what it today evening relative terms.

    We should appeal and tie this one up for a couple of years whilst offering to do a settlement for a more reasonable amount.
    Great points.

    It's hard to know what processes were in place, and with volunteers it makes it even more grey.

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  5. #78
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    Re: AFL club Western Bulldogs rocked by historical child sexual abuse scandal

    Western Bulldogs not insured for record $5.9m damages payout


    The Western Bulldogs have no insurance to cover the record $5.9 million damages payout awarded by the courts for historic sex abuse by a club volunteer in the 1980s.

    The club immediately declared its intent to appeal the verdict and damages awarded in the case when handed down last Thursday. The club will appeal liability and damages, a source with knowledge of the situation but not authorised to speak publicly confirmed to The Age.

    Three sources with a knowledge of the Bulldogs situation confirmed that the club did not have insurance coverage for the damages awarded by the court.

    A jury awarded the victim, Adam Kneale, $3.35 million for pain and suffering, $2.6 million in loss of earnings and $87,500 for future medical expenses. His lawyer said he believed it was the biggest payout in Australian legal history for an abuse survivor.

    Other AFL clubs and the league are closely monitoring the Western Bulldogs case and their planned appeal, aware of other potential historic cases connected to football clubs and the likelihood that few, if any, VFL/AFL clubs had insurance at the time to cover historic cases.

    The clubs that did have insurance covering those periods as far back as the 1960s might not have had policies that extended to the behaviour of their volunteers.

    Two other clubs, St Kilda and Geelong, have known cases of alleged historic sexual abuse.

    Two men who were timekeepers at St Kilda and operated as managers and coaches in the club?s Little League program in the 1960s and 1970s have been convicted of abusing junior players in their care, while another of the club?s Little League coaches ? former teacher Darrell Ray, now known as Ray Cosgriff ? has been charged with alleged historical sex offences, but is yet to be tried or convicted of the charges.

    A former Geelong under-19s player has also commenced legal proceedings over claims of sexual abuse allegedly suffered at the club by older players in the 1980s. Geelong has confirmed the legal action against the club.

    ?The club understands that a historical claim of serious sexual abuse has been made by a person who was engaged with the club?s under-19?s team in the early 1980s,? Geelong said in a statement earlier this year.

    The AFL and St Kilda are both signatories to the National Redress Scheme for victims of institutional sexual abuse. The NRS does not preclude a person taking civil action, such as occurred in the Western Bulldogs case. Senior legal sources, who did not wish to be identified due to the sensitive nature of such proceedings, said that the finding against the Bulldogs would encourage more victims to bypass the NRS and take civil action.

    In the Western Bulldogs case, Kneale reported his abuser, Graeme Hobbs, to police in 1993, when aged 21. This led to Hobbs and another man being jailed for their crimes and their part in a paedophile ring that passed Kneale around to other men to abuse.

    Long considered a financially challenged club with a relatively small supporter base, the Bulldogs have dramatically improved their fiscal position in recent years and have a strong balance sheet. In last year?s annual report, they recorded a total statutory profit of $5,188,421, with an operational profit (before redevelopment activities) of $1,363,857.

    This marked seventh consecutive year of total profits exceeding $1 million.

    When the case was first launched, Michael Magazanik, a partner with Rightside Legal, told this masthead he thought Kneale would be the first of many to sue an AFL club over childhood abuse.
    FFC: Established 1883

    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

  6. #79
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    Re: AFL club Western Bulldogs rocked by historical child sexual abuse scandal

    Part of the damages being that the courts let Hobbs off lightly is a pretty ridiculous thing to have as part of the suit considering that the club aren't the ones who sentenced him.

    We'll take our fair whack, there wasn't the level of background checks and working with children checks back then so it was a failure of all systems back then. There are going to be a lot of stories like this coming out for a lot of sports clubs.

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  8. #80
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    Re: AFL club Western Bulldogs rocked by historical child sexual abuse scandal

    Flood gates.
    When do they take into account the era that it happened and not make clubs guilty of rules that didn’t exist back then?
    It’s terrible for the poor bloke but it’s a long way away from the rules in place now.
    Bring back the biff

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  10. #81
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    Re: AFL club Western Bulldogs rocked by historical child sexual abuse scandal

    Wow. Well that explains the position we’ve taken then.
    - I'm a visionary - Only here to confirm my biases -

  11. #82
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    Re: AFL club Western Bulldogs rocked by historical child sexual abuse scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Days View Post
    Wow. Well that explains the position we’ve taken then.
    Unfortunately those days many organisations, especially Sport orgs, didn't have insurance for Directors and Officers liability.

    Hopefully the payout figure can be reduced.
    FFC: Established 1883

    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

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  13. #83
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    Re: AFL club Western Bulldogs rocked by historical child sexual abuse scandal

    If it were something like 2.5 million then it's an absolutely fair and reasonable pay out. 6 million is going to set a precedent that will cripple the smallest teams while the bigger teams will be able to absorb it for the most part.

  14. #84
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    Re: AFL club Western Bulldogs rocked by historical child sexual abuse scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Testekill View Post
    If it were something like 2.5 million then it's an absolutely fair and reasonable pay out. 6 million is going to set a precedent that will cripple the smallest teams while the bigger teams will be able to absorb it for the most part.
    I think the AFL will help out as it’s going to end up being more clubs.
    Bring back the biff

  15. #85
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    Re: AFL club Western Bulldogs rocked by historical child sexual abuse scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Testekill View Post
    If it were something like 2.5 million then it's an absolutely fair and reasonable pay out. 6 million is going to set a precedent that will cripple the smallest teams while the bigger teams will be able to absorb it for the most part.
    Im sorry but even 2.5m is an absurd payout

  16. #86
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    Re: AFL club Western Bulldogs rocked by historical child sexual abuse scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Topdog View Post
    Im sorry but even 2.5m is an absurd payout
    My wife talked to a lawyer at her work and she had a similar case recently and the payout was $2m
    FFC: Established 1883

    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

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  18. #87
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    Re: AFL club Western Bulldogs rocked by historical child sexual abuse scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Topdog View Post
    Im sorry but even 2.5m is an absurd payout
    I followed the case closely and I anticipated it would be around half a mill. I was truly shocked by the jury's decision.

  19. #88
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    Re: AFL club Western Bulldogs rocked by historical child sexual abuse scandal

    During the case what were the Bulldogs judged to have done wrong?

  20. #89
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    Re: AFL club Western Bulldogs rocked by historical child sexual abuse scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Topdog View Post
    During the case what were the Bulldogs judged to have done wrong?
    The Western Bulldogs have been ordered to pay a child sex abuse victim $5.9 million in damages after the Supreme Court found the club was negligent in protecting him from harm.

    https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/tea...1a56da8e38d829

  21. #90
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    Re: AFL club Western Bulldogs rocked by historical child sexual abuse scandal

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog4life View Post
    The Western Bulldogs have been ordered to pay a child sex abuse victim $5.9 million in damages after the Supreme Court found the club was negligent in protecting him from harm.

    https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/tea...1a56da8e38d829
    Yeah I knew that but its extremely vague. Did they break it down any further saying what we actually did poorly vs what we should have done?

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