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  1. #1
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    This Team - The Paradox of Supporting them.

    Does anyone else find themselves in a supporters paradox right now?

    There is quite literally no team in the competition I don't think we can beat. Setting aside all of the responses about 'if we get selections right' etc, I genuinely think we can beat anyone.

    Equally, we could lose to literally anyone and I would not be surprised.

    I read the thread about our 'tough' run home. I look at it and am like, 'meh...we can account for all of those teams'. I look at it again and can see us losing at least half of them (but I have no idea which half). Part of me sees us going on a withering run like Richmond in 2019 and running the table. Another part? We win a couple, lose a couple, miss the finals and wring our hands!

    Will the real Slim-Shady please stand up! I mean, it's time right??
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

  2. #2
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    Re: This Team - The Paradox of Supporting them.

    We are in a position where we can win every game in the run home, but agree we can also lose quite a few as well.

    I am not really worried about any game coming up as I feel we have the talent that can beat any one any time.

    I think a bit of luck also helps, especially if we can hold on to key players injury free.

    In the end, it is up to the players if they have the energy and effort and the want to make finals and top four. Win every game and we finish 3rd (in my predictor)
    FFC: Established 1883

    Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

  3. #3
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    Re: This Team - The Paradox of Supporting them.

    I am with you mjp, we can beat everyone.

    However, we regularly conjure ways to lose to anyone as per Essendon and Hawthorn in 2021.

    It seems that we only want to do the impossible and never play the percentages.

    Totally Jekyll and Hyde.
    Life is to be Enjoyed not Endured

  4. #4
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    Re: This Team - The Paradox of Supporting them.

    In every game we've played this year there's been periods where we've been completely on top and look like putting the opposition to the sword, but equally we've completed sucked for periods and looked like the worst team in the comp.

    If we can even out the periods between our best & worst we can go on a big run and have the comp looking over their shoulders, but given the sample set of 2022 I have no faith we will.

  5. #5
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    Re: This Team - The Paradox of Supporting them.

    Our GF finish last year and the way that we played throughout that year confirms that the list is a good one and our playing style is very competitive against the competitions best teams.
    Where we have some challenges is that we have been more inconsistent this year than last. Our best is clearly good enough and if we can get on a roll we are a more than capable side.

    It all starts this week against Brisbane and the next 3 or 4 weeks will tell the story. We are really entering the interesting part of the year and we should fear no team.
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

  6. #6
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    Re: This Team - The Paradox of Supporting them.

    It's like a 5 percent margin between our best and worst in my mind.
    I know it's not reality but I feel unless we are super switched on and up for the fight we can get scored against quickly and heavily.

    I'm loving West. He could just be the x factor in a really decent run. He is Libba mark 2. Has amazing vision, doesn't have Libba's skill by foot but his smarts are second to none. You can't train that.

    I'm the same. We can beat Melbourne and lose to the Crows.

    I have no idea which way it's going to go, but it's a fun ride ride never the less!

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  8. #7
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    Re: This Team - The Paradox of Supporting them.

    It makes supporting us fun, and horrible! It makes hope spring eternal, and makes it soooo annoying when you see Carlton in the top 4! It's why I'll be at the Gabba on Thursday expecting a win, and expecting a loss at the same time.

    We can definitely beat anyone, and the it's such a source of frustration.

    I guess that's why it's a marathon, not a sprint. Or maybe it's both? You need to do well over a sustained period to make finals (ideally top 4) then you need to win in Sept. Tough to do.

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  10. #8
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    Re: This Team - The Paradox of Supporting them.

    In every loss we have had this year we very much looked like we could win the game at some point.

    Round #1 Melbourne. We kicked eight consevutive goals. Were up by 21 points. We looked like we were going to run away with it.

    Round #2 Carlton. We had more scoring shots. More inside 50s. We had 7 of the last 8 scoring shots. We kicked 12 behinds V Carltons 6. Lose by 12 points.

    Round #4 Tigers. We kicked 7.19! We kicked 2.7 in the first quarter. The game should have been over at quarter time. Our worst loss for the season, but if we kicked straight early and took our chances we would have won that game. We had nine more inside 50s and lost by 38 points.

    Round #6 Crows. Worst peformance of the year. Didn't really look like it all day but hit the front in the last quarter and were in the lead at the 23 minute mark of the last quarter.

    Round #8 Port. Started well. Dominated the first part of the game but didn't take our chances again. Let them score to easily against the trend of play. Quarter time was 5.0 to our 4.4. Game got away from us after half time. But early we looked liked we had their measure.

    Round #12 Geelong. 40 points down at the start of the second quarter. We closed within a goal twice in the last quarter but could not get the job done after such a poor start.

    Who knows what you are going to get over four quarters let alone week to week. Nothing would suprise me. Our best footy has been good enough to match any team we have faced. However if we don't bring intent, pressure and focus we could lose to anyone.

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  12. #9
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    Re: This Team - The Paradox of Supporting them.

    It is unbelievably frustrating. We’re such a glass cannon and in every game (with the exception of playing with 15 players against Port) have either been in a position to win (Melbourne, Adelaide, Richmond) or had an extended period that demonstrated we were clearly the better side (Carlton, Geelong). But our midfield defensive lapses continue to expose our back 6 and also suggests we learnt exactly nothing from the Grand Final.

    But when it’s good, it’s so good.
    - I'm a visionary - Only here to confirm my biases -

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  14. #10
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    Re: This Team - The Paradox of Supporting them.

    I actually don't think we're that good.

    I should clarify that statement. I think we are a 6-10 side.

    Our midfield is overrated. Yes, it can pile on the damage v rubbish sides (think Norf, West Coast, Saints last year) but they are also prone to going missing for lengthy periods of time. On paper, it should be the best mid group in the game but I think it's about the 4th-6th best in reality.

    Our forward half is about middle of the pack. Naughton is a star, Weightman is dangerous, West is quickly becoming dependable but there isn't a LOT else. Marra/Buku/Schache/Hannan/rotating mids aren't causing too much damage. Even still, I am encouraged by our forward group over the past 5-6 weeks. JJ is important and if we can get a couple of players back, I don't have an issue with our forward half.

    But our back half is diabolical. That's putting it nicely. It's the sole reason I don't think we can beat Melbourne and why we'll probably fall short v Brisbane (and maybe Carlton). Keath is nowhere near his form of '21, Duryea is injured/dropped off a little and the rest are mostly 'attack first' (i.e. Daniel, Dale, Richards). I respect Gardner's effort and he has improved, but he's still barely AFL standard as the second key defender. O'Brien is OK and can play a role.

    When I look at the top sides (Melbourne, Brisbane somewhat, Carlton, even Fremantle) they are able to hold up under pressure for a certain period of time largely thanks to their back half and how they set up. Yes, there's always examples of the opposite (Brisbane/Freo on the weekend, Melbourne a few weeks prior) but for the most part their defenders are dependable. I have NO faith we can repel any forward entry, even from bog average sides (Norf kicked 6? on us!).

    Until we fix our defence, and it's largely personnel, I don't see how we win anything.

    ** While it is always easy to point the finger at our midfield, and yes they share the blame a lot of the time, the defenders need to actually DEFEND at times. We can't dominate games for 120 minutes. Imagine if our defence stood up in last year's GF and we were only 1 goal down at 3qtr time? **
    W00F!

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  16. #11
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    Re: This Team - The Paradox of Supporting them.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bulldogs Bite View Post
    I actually don't think we're that good.

    I should clarify that statement. I think we are a 6-10 side.

    Our midfield is overrated. Yes, it can pile on the damage v rubbish sides (think Norf, West Coast, Saints last year) but they are also prone to going missing for lengthy periods of time. On paper, it should be the best mid group in the game but I think it's about the 4th-6th best in reality.

    Our forward half is about middle of the pack. Naughton is a star, Weightman is dangerous, West is quickly becoming dependable but there isn't a LOT else. Marra/Buku/Schache/Hannan/rotating mids aren't causing too much damage. Even still, I am encouraged by our forward group over the past 5-6 weeks. JJ is important and if we can get a couple of players back, I don't have an issue with our forward half.

    But our back half is diabolical. That's putting it nicely. It's the sole reason I don't think we can beat Melbourne and why we'll probably fall short v Brisbane (and maybe Carlton). Keath is nowhere near his form of '21, Duryea is injured/dropped off a little and the rest are mostly 'attack first' (i.e. Daniel, Dale, Richards). I respect Gardner's effort and he has improved, but he's still barely AFL standard as the second key defender. O'Brien is OK and can play a role.

    When I look at the top sides (Melbourne, Brisbane somewhat, Carlton, even Fremantle) they are able to hold up under pressure for a certain period of time largely thanks to their back half and how they set up. Yes, there's always examples of the opposite (Brisbane/Freo on the weekend, Melbourne a few weeks prior) but for the most part their defenders are dependable. I have NO faith we can repel any forward entry, even from bog average sides (Norf kicked 6? on us!).

    Until we fix our defence, and it's largely personnel, I don't see how we win anything.

    ** While it is always easy to point the finger at our midfield, and yes they share the blame a lot of the time, the defenders need to actually DEFEND at times. We can't dominate games for 120 minutes. Imagine if our defence stood up in last year's GF and we were only 1 goal down at 3qtr time? **
    It's interesting. I think our long term is 5-10 (proven over time).

    Our ceiling is 1 or 2. I think Melbourne and the Dogs are the two best sides in it.
    Last edited by Grantysghost; 28-06-2022 at 12:16 PM.

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  18. #12
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    Re: This Team - The Paradox of Supporting them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Days View Post
    It is unbelievably frustrating. We’re such a glass cannon and in every game (with the exception of playing with 15 players against Port) have either been in a position to win (Melbourne, Adelaide, Richmond) or had an extended period that demonstrated we were clearly the better side (Carlton, Geelong). But our midfield defensive lapses continue to expose our back 6 and also suggests we learnt exactly nothing from the Grand Final.

    But when it’s good, it’s so good.
    Wouldn't it be nice if the backline could actually stand up under pressure occasionally?

    The expectation that the midfield is going to totally dominant the opposition every week just isn't going to happen.

  19. #13
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    Re: This Team - The Paradox of Supporting them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mantis View Post
    Wouldn't it be nice if the backline could actually stand up under pressure occasionally?

    The expectation that the midfield is going to totally dominant the opposition every week just isn't going to happen.
    Oh no doubt. It’s not a fair expectation but when you build a team like ours it is a practical reality.
    - I'm a visionary - Only here to confirm my biases -

  20. #14
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    Re: This Team - The Paradox of Supporting them.

    We lost to the Crows, yet made Collingwood look second rate.

    It's worrying. We're not a team you can trust, we're 'conditional'.
    Western Bulldogs: 2016 Premiers

  21. #15
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    Re: This Team - The Paradox of Supporting them.

    Great thread. I'd rather we have a ceiling that matches it with the absolute best in the comp (which I think we do), as opposed to a Sydney-esque perennial top 4-6 list that is not at the level of the real pointy end. The 2021 finals series was a thrilling ride until the last 40 minutes of the season - happy to risk that exhilarating ride again in 2022 if we're good enough.

    Of course I'd rather have Melbourne 2021 best of both worlds but we aren't there yet in terms of the list.
    "Look at me mate. Look at me. I'm flyin'"

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