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14-07-2022, 01:45 PM
#136
Re: Heat on Bevo?
Originally Posted by
azabob
I can't recall getting involved in this discussion, but if you said I have, I bow to your better judgement.
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14-07-2022, 03:28 PM
#137
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15-07-2022, 07:09 AM
#138
Re: Heat on Bevo?
Originally Posted by
GVGjr
Bains on SEN today
Seems we believe we a compromised preseason is one of the contributing factors for our struggles and got us off to a slow start.
Injuries and surgeries are always a consideration
Answering Bevo's revelation about conviction from the group Bains mentioned that there have been periods in games when our concentration lacks.
Loss of experience in the coaching group was mentioned.
Bains also concedes a loss to the Saints will as good as shot the door on finals this year.
Did he give any insight into what compromised our preseason.
Most disappointing that the last 2 times we have made a GF we have completely blown the next season.
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15-07-2022, 08:36 AM
#139
Re: Heat on Bevo?
Originally Posted by
Topdog
Did he give any insight into what compromised our preseason.
Most disappointing that the last 2 times we have made a GF we have completely blown the next season.
Nah, didn’t really (I listened but was half nodding off…).
It’s interesting that preparation has been mentioned though. Short preseason for sure but Dees had the same and Cats were just a couple weeks behind.
I know English and Naughton were in WA for the first part but both of those seem to have been fine throughout the season. And it’s not like we have tired in games so much, more that we haven’t show up at times. (All the talk that Sydney match was a one off ignores the Cats first qtr not long ago).
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15-07-2022, 09:32 AM
#140
Re: Heat on Bevo?
Originally Posted by
Topdog
Most disappointing that the last 2 times we have made a GF we have completely blown the next season.
Apart from Rocket (3 years of finals in a row, all top 4) and Plough (4 years of finals in a row), we have always done this in my lifetime. And I'm on the wrong side of 50. Might be massively diappointing but it is not exactly surprising that we have failed to follow up a successful season yet again this year.
"Look at me mate. Look at me. I'm flyin'"
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22-07-2022, 01:54 AM
#141
Re: Heat on Bevo?
I wonder if much of this happens at our club:
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/07/...and-respected/
Luke Hodge has seen over his time in the game a difference between being liked and being respected.
The former Hawthorn captain was assessing St Kilda coach Brett Ratten’s post-game address to his players in the wake of their loss to the Western Bulldogs last Friday night.
The club released the footage of Ratten speaking with his Saints players in the rooms with one of the more pertinent quotes stemming from his own experiences as a player in a successful Carlton side.
Ratten said: “The teams that I’ve been involved in, there was f---ing blokes saying that ain’t f---ing good enough mate, lift your game. It’s not like he doesn’t like ya, but we’re playing for a f---ing spot in the finals”.
Essentially, Ratten was saying: “We’ve got to ask more of each other”.
Four-time premiership Hawk and ex-Lion Hodge admits there can sometimes be a “big issue” when it comes to confronting teammates in order to improve.
But if you can get it right, it goes a long way to improving standards.
“There’s a big issue with leadership in AFL and it’s the issue between being wanting to be liked or wanting to be respected,” Hodge said on SEN’s Whateley.
“Early on, a lot of younger players especially, they don’t want to say the wrong thing in case they’re not liked by other teammates. Because if they say the wrong thing and they take offence, then, ‘He might not like me, he might not have a beer with me after the game’, and that might fracture their relationship as players and teammates.
“When you get older, it turns from, ‘He might not like me right now, we can get over that, but he’s going to respect me by the end of the game, by the end of the season, by the end of my career’. That’s the twisting part that sounds like ‘Ratts’ is trying to push with these St Kilda players.
“Be tight enough off-field so then when you do say something on-field, when you do push someone, when maybe you say something to a teammate that he may not like, the fact that he knows where it’s coming from. It’s coming from a place where he wants us to get better, he wants us to push that extra little bit.
“If I don’t give my all, I expect a teammate to tell me that. If I see him do the same thing, I will let him know the same thing. It’s not about liking and not liking, it’s about getting the best out of each other.
“They were playing for a finals spot and you look through trying to get the best out of your teammates - 41 clearances to 21. If you look through St Kilda’s midfield, we’ve pumped (Rowan) Marshall and (Paddy) Ryder up about their ruck work, and then you look at (Jack) Steele, (Brad) Crouch and (Zak) Jones. Blokes in there that you think will roll up their sleeves, who will get dirty and get the clearances out. They lost by 20.
“That’s what Ratts is talking about. If you see someone not having a go, mention it, say it to him. Tell him next time that you’ve got to go harder because as soon as you say it to him, I tell you what, next time you better do it because otherwise your teammates are going to come back at you and say the same thing.”
Hodge touched on his own experiences throughout his extensive and savagely successful playing days.
He provided some intriguing insight into the demands amongst the players at Hawthorn and how he had to ensure to newcomers that Jarryd Roughead and Jordan Lewis were indeed mates, such was their lofty expectations of one another.
Lewis Roughead Hawthorn
“It’s about being a leader and getting older and getting that respect part, it’s about moulding both sides,” Hodge added.
“We used to call it two-way feedback. Being happy to say it to a teammate, but also being happy to accept it.
“It took me a long time for the accepting part because I needed to work on off-the-ball stuff as well.
“We had to explain to new blokes that came in to Hawthorn that ‘Roughy’ and ‘Lewy’ actually liked each other. On the football field they were honest.
“I used to have good honest feedback with (Brad) Sewell, ‘Mitch’ (Sam Mitchell) and ‘Gibbo’ (Josh Gibson), (but) Lewy and Roughy were the next level because they had that relationship off-field. They could say whatever they wanted to each other.
“They’d still walk off the field and know they are saying it to get the best out of them to benefit the club and the playing group.
“It’s about pushing those boundaries, using senior guys and practising at training. You need to give them feedback then and there at training if they’re doing the right thing or not.”
Listen to Hodge’s full chat with Gerard Whateley below:
Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.
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22-07-2022, 09:41 AM
#142
Re: Heat on Bevo?
It makes you wonder what it is like behind closed doors its a different world out there today and political correctness has gone through the roof and not much can be said without it offending someone. (Sorry if statement offended someone).
When giving feedback you can't say it straight you have to select your words carefully and not everyone can articulate what they are trying to say just like me typing this post.
Maybe a team meeting at the start of the season and just say if it seems like I'm picking on you I'm not just trying to get the best out of everyone for the team.
Was it Johnno that held someone against a locker to tell a few home truths ah the good old days.
Sorry I shouldn't have said that I apologise.
Last edited by Hotdog60; 22-07-2022 at 10:42 AM.
Don't piss off old people
The older we get the less "LIFE IN PRISON" is a deterrent...
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22-07-2022, 10:47 AM
#143
Re: Heat on Bevo?
Originally Posted by
Hotdog60
It makes you wonder what it is like behind closed doors its a different world out there today and political correctness has gone through the roof and not much can be said without it offending someone. (Sorry if statement offended someone).
When giving feedback you can't say it straight you have to select your words carefully and not everyone can articulate what they are trying to say just like me typing this post.
Maybe a team meeting at the start of the season and just say if it seems like I'm picking on you I'm not just trying to get the best out of everyone for the team.
Was it Johnno that held someone against a locker to tell a few home truths ah the good old days.
Sorry I shouldn't have said that I apologise.
Don't really see how it relates to what Hodge was talking about unless the person in question is Tex Walker
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22-07-2022, 12:01 PM
#144
Re: Heat on Bevo?
There you go I used the wrong wording because I can't articulate what I trying say its very hard to communicate now days.
“Early on, a lot of younger players especially, they don’t want to say the wrong thing in case they’re not liked by other teammates. Because if they say the wrong thing and they take offence, then, ‘He might not like me, he might not have a beer with me after the game’, and that might fracture their relationship as players and teammates."
The meaning I was after was in relation to offending someone like in the paragraph above.
Don't piss off old people
The older we get the less "LIFE IN PRISON" is a deterrent...
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22-07-2022, 12:34 PM
#145
Re: Heat on Bevo?
Originally Posted by
Hotdog60
There you go I used the wrong wording because I can't articulate what I trying say its very hard to communicate now days.
“Early on, a lot of younger players especially, they don’t want to say the wrong thing in case they’re not liked by other teammates. Because if they say the wrong thing and they take offence, then, ‘He might not like me, he might not have a beer with me after the game’, and that might fracture their relationship as players and teammates."
The meaning I was after was in relation to offending someone like in the paragraph above.
Right. But I think if you're putting it down to being politically correct then either we have different understandings of what that term means or different understandings of what Hodge means.
To me it means not being an -ist of some sort. What Hodge is talking about is not wanting to step on anyone's toes calling out bad behavior or poor standards etc. Not wanting to do the hard thing because you feel it'll hurt you relationship with that person, maybe partially due to not feeling secure yourself in your position or not feeling senior enough to do something like that.
I mean sure in the good old days you could probably tell someone to stop being such a lazy Ab* and no one would call you out for it but I don't think that's the best way to get a point across if you want someone to listen (which is a case where being PC would change the approach).
I doubt this is radically different now to 20 years ago. People have always wanted to be liked by their team mates and work mates and there's always a risk of pissing someone off if you tell them their not doing something right regardless of how well you approach them.
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22-07-2022, 03:38 PM
#146
Re: Heat on Bevo?
Originally Posted by
hujsh
Right. But I think if you're putting it down to being politically correct then either we have different understandings of what that term means or different understandings of what Hodge means.
To me it means not being an -ist of some sort. What Hodge is talking about is not wanting to step on anyone's toes calling out bad behavior or poor standards etc. Not wanting to do the hard thing because you feel it'll hurt you relationship with that person, maybe partially due to not feeling secure yourself in your position or not feeling senior enough to do something like that.
I mean sure in the good old days you could probably tell someone to stop being such a lazy Ab* and no one would call you out for it but I don't think that's the best way to get a point across if you want someone to listen (which is a case where being PC would change the approach).
I doubt this is radically different now to 20 years ago. People have always wanted to be liked by their team mates and work mates and there's always a risk of pissing someone off if you tell them their not doing something right regardless of how well you approach them.
I remember when I first started work there was an American guy there. He was always a bit strange towards me so I asked him. "Have you got a problem with me?" "No" he said. "I just don't like you". I walked away with my tail between my legs....hell no-one wants to hear that. I wish I never asked him.
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22-07-2022, 06:25 PM
#147
Re: Heat on Bevo?
Originally Posted by
MrMahatma
I just reckon all the heat that comes up about our list and the holes gets pointed at Bevo and not Sam.
Surely one of the problems for the list manager is the reluctance of the coach to play certain players.
I am in the camp that Sam Power has done what we have expected of him to a highly competent level.
Life is to be Enjoyed not Endured
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22-07-2022, 06:48 PM
#148
Re: Heat on Bevo?
Originally Posted by
Bulldog Joe
Surely one of the problems for the list manager is the reluctance of the coach to play certain players.
I am in the camp that Sam Power has done what we have expected of him to a highly competent level.
This is pretty much exactly my point. So there are players on the list that the coach doesn’t think are up to it, or can’t play the way he needs them to, and apparently that’s got nothing to do with the list manager?
What exactly is the list manager accountable for? Just making sure we have enough players?
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22-07-2022, 07:48 PM
#149
Re: Heat on Bevo?
Originally Posted by
Bulldog Joe
Surely one of the problems for the list manager is the reluctance of the coach to play certain players.
I am in the camp that Sam Power has done what we have expected of him to a highly competent level.
I am in the same camp.
But selecting players who the coach WILL PLAY is surely part of the Job Description. No good spending capital on players who you know wont tick the non-negotiables list of the coach...
What should I tell her? She's going to ask.
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23-07-2022, 07:59 AM
#150
Re: Heat on Bevo?
Originally Posted by
mjp
I am in the same camp.
But selecting players who the coach WILL PLAY is surely part of the Job Description. No good spending capital on players who you know wont tick the non-negotiables list of the coach...
Not sure the list manager can identify that in advance.
It seems we have brought in a few that the coach wanted, with Tim O'Brien the latest. Jackson Trengove seemed that way but lost favour.
That can't be on the list manager.
Life is to be Enjoyed not Endured