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  1. #16
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    Re: Western Bulldogs’ fall from grace

    Quote Originally Posted by G-Mo77 View Post
    Not a lot wrong in that article.

    Defence in midfield is non existent, so tick there. Back six poor this season a tick there as well. We might be able to stem some bleeding if the midfield would work harder, even if they did I have no faith in the backline. It's poor and I'm being soft on them.

    Bruce was gone for 12 months, we did nothing to counter that, the result of that Naughton getting put through the wringer each week. There were plenty of secondary rucks on the market in the offseason. We turned our noses up at most and kept Martin on for another season.

    Coaching staff, another tick. I've said enough on this. We are not putting the right people around our heard coach or our coach is putting the wrong people a round him. Choosing a friend who has no experience at all leads me to believe that he had finals say in that selection.

    Injuries again yes, we have been cruelled by them like previous seasons. Have we done anything to try and improve in this area or are we just saying it's bad luck? I don't know the answer to this, nothing has come out and said we're trying to address it. I still think selecting balanced teams and less experimentation we would have had more W's on the board to counter it but that's another subject.

    A lot of peeps getting worked up over the Lewis Young part for and against. Yes we would have been better with him in the team, how anyone can say we wouldn't is playing defence but he wouldn't have changed many results either. The fact that we didn't develop him here and has flourished in a new system is a real eye opener and really disappointing.

    This article nailed the 5 small points they raised and if they dug deeper could have put in some more.
    That manic pressure we applied in the midfield resulted in so many turnovers. That is no longer there and as such defense is under so much pressure as a result.

    We were throwing the ball around and running in waves. Very rarely do you see that this year.

    Players have to be accountable for that as well. Bont not being full fit doesn't help. He led by example. Put him out early and get him right for next year with his ankle and shoulder surgery.

    Very hard to now expect to turn it around this year but I am sure a change in personnel and players will ensure we will be very competitive again next year.

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  3. #17
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    Re: Western Bulldogs’ fall from grace

    Quote Originally Posted by dalek View Post
    Everyone says about employing 2 untried assistants while I don't agree with the appointments but they were probably the best at the time because of the lateness of losing Hansen.
    Hansen had accepted a contract with us to be the senior assistant and I would have held him to it.
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

  4. #18
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    Re: Western Bulldogs’ fall from grace

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullies View Post
    That manic pressure we applied in the midfield resulted in so many turnovers. That is no longer there and as such defense is under so much pressure as a result.

    We were throwing the ball around and running in waves. Very rarely do you see that this year.

    Players have to be accountable for that as well. Bont not being full fit doesn't help. He led by example. Put him out early and get him right for next year with his ankle and shoulder surgery.

    Very hard to now expect to turn it around this year but I am sure a change in personnel and players will ensure we will be very competitive again next year.
    Bingo!

    Manic Pressure in the middle is not there.

    I have read elsewhere before that it is not sustainable over time, no matter which sides is delivering on this in the present.

  5. #19
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    Re: Western Bulldogs’ fall from grace

    Quote Originally Posted by comrade View Post
    I love Easton but he was gifted a spot in that GF team. He should have been dropped after the Essendon debacle. He was largely poor throughout 2021 culminating in a horror game up against Fritsch. O’Brien hasn’t been great but he wasn’t replacing much.

    Lewis Young’s last contribution to our team was as primary ruck man (a true wtf decision!). He wasn’t ever someone we had to replace in defence and it’s unlikely he was even in the coaching group’s consideration for this year.

    I agree that Bevo’s support cast is probably a factor in our underperforming but not the above two.
    Wrong match up for Fristch. Dureya should have taken him. One game though vs a pretty good season. Woudl rank EW's 2021 and > then TO'B's 2022. He may have had a dirty day in the GF, but he contributed enough during the year to justify a place.

    I think you are making my point for me with L Young- he was never a ruckman, we just wanted him to be and in doing so lost a tall backman. My firm believe is that L Young's departure will be the biggest list management f*ck up of Bevo's tenure - Keep Young and you don't need TO'B. Given Keath's injury problems, Young in 2022 would (well never a given, so should) have played more games. I have seller's regret over him.

  6. #20
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    Re: Western Bulldogs’ fall from grace

    Quote Originally Posted by FrediKanoute View Post
    Wrong match up for Fristch. Dureya should have taken him. One game though vs a pretty good season. Woudl rank EW's 2021 and > then TO'B's 2022. He may have had a dirty day in the GF, but he contributed enough during the year to justify a place.

    I think you are making my point for me with L Young- he was never a ruckman, we just wanted him to be and in doing so lost a tall backman. My firm believe is that L Young's departure will be the biggest list management f*ck up of Bevo's tenure - Keep Young and you don't need TO'B. Given Keath's injury problems, Young in 2022 would (well never a given, so should) have played more games. I have seller's regret over him.
    My point is Lewis Young is not a reason for our ‘fall from grace’ and drop in ladder position from 2021. He contributed nothing to our success last year and would most likely have spent 2022 being shuffled around from ruck to forward to back in the VFL if he was still on the list - just like prior years.
    Our 1954 premiership players are our heroes, and it has to be said that Charlie was their hero.

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  8. #21
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    Re: Western Bulldogs’ fall from grace

    Hayes played for Carlton on the weekend.

    I mean, they may be having a good year but you can’t say their depth is awesome if Will is getting a run.

    I’ve seen a bit of Young in navy blue and reckon he’s been poor in the matches I’ve seen. Not sure it’s all it’s cracked up to be. That said, would rather we played him in KPD and developed him in the past 2 seasons and see how we went. O’Brien looks a bust and worse than Young.

  9. #22
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    Re: Western Bulldogs’ fall from grace

    Quote Originally Posted by MrMahatma View Post
    Hayes played for Carlton on the weekend.

    I mean, they may be having a good year but you can’t say their depth is awesome if Will is getting a run.

    I’ve seen a bit of Young in navy blue and reckon he’s been poor in the matches I’ve seen. Not sure it’s all it’s cracked up to be. That said, would rather we played him in KPD and developed him in the past 2 seasons and see how we went. O’Brien looks a bust and worse than Young.
    Agree with this. Be interesting if he figures in finals.

  10. #23
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    Re: Western Bulldogs’ fall from grace

    Quote Originally Posted by MrMahatma View Post
    Hayes played for Carlton on the weekend.

    I mean, they may be having a good year but you can’t say their depth is awesome if Will is getting a run.

    I’ve seen a bit of Young in navy blue and reckon he’s been poor in the matches I’ve seen. Not sure it’s all it’s cracked up to be. That said, would rather we played him in KPD and developed him in the past 2 seasons and see how we went. O’Brien looks a bust and worse than Young.
    If you just look at that decision, Young out O'Brien in then regardless of Young's ability it seems a net loss or break even at this stage.

    Not sure what our recruiting team saw in Tim that made him appealing. His track record was less than impressive.

    Do they even talk to opposition coaches?
    Retired from match day thread - Sep 2021 (Sometimes)

  11. #24
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    Re: Western Bulldogs’ fall from grace

    Just on Lewis Young the facts as I remember them are.

    Young was out of contract
    We offered Young a contract
    Young chose to leave (can't blame him)

    It wasn't as though we delisted him or actively chose to trade him.

    Exactly the same scenario as Lipinski.
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  13. #25
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    Re: Western Bulldogs’ fall from grace

    Quote Originally Posted by comrade View Post
    My point is Lewis Young is not a reason for our ‘fall from grace’ and drop in ladder position from 2021. He contributed nothing to our success last year and would most likely have spent 2022 being shuffled around from ruck to forward to back in the VFL if he was still on the list - just like prior years.
    While I agree with you, the selection lotto that had Young playing in the ruck and up forward and moving between the seniors and VFL throughout 2021 has in some ways played its part in where we are now. We have an unbalanced list and using someone like Young has contributed to that.
    He's been a solid player for Carlton during their challenges this year with injured players.
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  14. #26
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    Re: Western Bulldogs’ fall from grace

    The Sydney game led directly to this article.

    Nothing it mentioned - Young, Bruce, Assistants, Defending or 'Absences' had a single thing to do with last week's performance and is a complete cop-out.

    Not having a week-in, week-out commitment to play with effort has been an issue for this group of players going back to 2018. Every year we dish up really poor performances against teams in the lower echelons of the ladder and show that whilst we can be hard to play against, when we get it 'wrong' it goes really wrong.

    Last week? Blame the backs all you like but the lack of effort from English, Bont, Macrae and Dunks was the reason for the loss. Warner - a second year player who cannot kick - was the best mid on the ground in the first half because he:
    1/. Is determined to be first to the ball.
    2/. Gets lower and harder than everyone else.
    3/. Treats transition running - back and forward - as an opportunity to impact the game rather than something you do when you have too.

    The Swans - led by Warner - smashed us. To me, articles like this - whilst they aren't wrong - paper over the cracks of what the REAL issue is.

    Jackson Macrae is an amazing footballer and the single best ball winner I have ever seen. But when the hosts of an AFL Fantasy podcast make ongoing jokes about his 'head tilt' and poor body language anytime he lines up away from his preferred position, well, that's a problem. It happens so often that they joke about it? It's not good enough.

    I have said it before but I sincerely wonder sometimes whether we have a group of players to whom playing 'WELL' (individually) is more important than winning games of footy. I get shouted down and criticised every time I say that, but watch the first quarter of last week's game again and tell me I'm wrong. Tell me that aside from Liber, West and Naughton that we are a team with positive body language desperate to win the footy and work for one another.

    Our game-day effort remains conditional. I will say this forever and reiterate that what happened in the second half of the GF can be laid squarely at the feet of our best players - Melbourne KILLED us out of the middle and no-one was prepared to:
    1/. Make a stand
    2/. Sacrifice their game
    3/. Lead their team-mates

    I started a thread saying it's a hard team to love - it is. We have some brilliant players but our effort is conditional. Should Bevo have moved Treloar and Hannan to the back half? Well, maybe not. But Treloar was OK back there and has a lot of attributes that could see him be really effective in that role...those things didn't cost us the game. English refusing to make body contact in ruck contests vs Ladhams was really poor. Warner setting the standard for winning the ball was really poor (by us).

    Blame the club for not holding Hansen to his contract and allowing Young to go to Carlton if you like - those things are convenient after all - but our BEST PLAYERS (Bont, Macrae, Dunks and English) had their butts handed to them and that is why we lost.
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

  15. #27
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    Re: Western Bulldogs’ fall from grace

    Quote Originally Posted by azabob View Post
    Just on Lewis Young the facts as I remember them are.

    Young was out of contract
    We offered Young a contract
    Young chose to leave (can't blame him)

    It wasn't as though we delisted him or actively chose to trade him.

    Exactly the same scenario as Lipinski.
    He left for opportunity. You can imagine he didn't believe he would get a regular game with us.
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

  16. #28
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    Re: Western Bulldogs’ fall from grace

    Quote Originally Posted by mjp View Post
    I have said it before but I sincerely wonder sometimes whether we have a group of players to whom playing 'WELL' (individually) is more important than winning games of footy. I get shouted down and criticised every time I say that, but watch the first quarter of last week's game again and tell me I'm wrong. Tell me that aside from Liber, West and Naughton that we are a team with positive body language desperate to win the footy and work for one another.
    Yep I can't think of another name that could be added to those 3. We miss players that just come in and do their job week in, week out. You can blame injuries but in reality we only have 6 or 7 in our best 22 that are 100% committed 100% of the time.

  17. #29
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    Re: Western Bulldogs’ fall from grace

    Quote Originally Posted by Topdog View Post
    Yep I can't think of another name that could be added to those 3. We miss players that just come in and do their job week in, week out. You can blame injuries but in reality we only have 6 or 7 in our best 22 that are 100% committed 100% of the time.
    Why is the question though? Surely this has been addressed by the coaching group. Are we saying these guys just don't listen?

    Dunks, Libba and Smith you simply can't question their effort/commitment both ways.

    Bont - well prior to this year I would never have questioned anything he does.

    That leaves Jacko, Hunter, Treloar of the regulars. Hunter is committed both ways. The other two, well you could question that aspect of their game for sure but I don't think it's a major issue?

    I'm kind of confused with the commentary around the mids. I get they're held to a very high standard.

    Is it more about them as a group more than individuals?

    Smith being out really makes our midfield group look very very slow and one paced.

    I'm defending the mids!! xD #teammidfield
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  18. #30
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    Re: Western Bulldogs’ fall from grace

    Quote Originally Posted by Grantysghost View Post
    If you just look at that decision, Young out O'Brien in then regardless of Young's ability it seems a net loss or break even at this stage.

    Not sure what our recruiting team saw in Tim that made him appealing. His track record was less than impressive.

    Do they even talk to opposition coaches?
    O'Brien replacing Young is no break even it is a huge loss to us. Young despite what some may say is travelling well at Carlton and doing some good jobs with Weitering out.

    We were warned what we were getting from Hawthorn supporters with O'Brien and to think he was recruited as an intercept defender to replace Wood. To be honest you don't want the ball anywhere near his hands.

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