Three things you've learned. Round twenty one 2022 v Fremantle

[EasternWest]

He's 31 years old and is yet another midfielder but would Liam Shiels be of any interest to us short term? He's used to working in midfields as the quality B grader that supports the others, is tough as hell, could provide some leadership and Hawthorn are trying to move to the next generation. If we are going all in one the next two years (Lobb and Jones both being old would indicate this) then could he help? (Obviously assuming we lose atleast Dunkley which opens a spot somewhere)

Hell of a role playing midfielder, I rate him. But we should only chase him if we're in a "premiership window" and frankly I have my doubts.

Which is another reason why I'm cooling on both Lobb and Jones.

Not that there’s any possible way to confirm this but pretty sure I said Libba was looking cool and young and definitely shouldn’t feel self conscious about other people he went to uni with achieving more than him given how still young and not finished he is.

Damn I wish I was a narc.

[Sedat]

He's 31 years old and is yet another midfielder but would Liam Shiels be of any interest to us short term? He's used to working in midfields as the quality B grader that supports the others, is tough as hell, could provide some leadership and Hawthorn are trying to move to the next generation. If we are going all in one the next two years (Lobb and Jones both being old would indicate this) then could he help? (Obviously assuming we lose atleast Dunkley which opens a spot somewhere)

Toby McLean deserves first crack at this Geoege Hewitt style defensive mid role. I don't think we need to trade draft currency for anyone else. I also think we need to have some direct conversations with a couple of our star studded mids about adjusting their game to a more defensive mindset. If it is good enough for the likes of Cotchin and Pendlebury, some of our players can adjust for the betterment of the team.

[azabob]

Toby McLean deserves first crack at this Geoege Hewitt style defensive mid role. I don't think we need to trade draft currency for anyone else. I also think we need to have some direct conversations with a couple of our star studded mids about adjusting their game to a more defensive mindset. If it is good enough for the likes of Cotchin and Pendlebury, some of our players can adjust for the betterment of the team.

Surely the time for direct conversations with our star midfielders would’ve been over the pre season after they got pantsed in the GF 3rd quarter. Bit hard I guess if you believe the rumours said game was not reviewed, just moved on from.

[Sedat]

Surely the time for direct conversations with our star midfielders would’ve been over the pre season after they got pantsed in the GF 3rd quarter. Bit hard I guess if you believe the rumours said game was not reviewed, just moved on from.

Agree 100%, the sole ultimate reason we didn't win a flag in 2021 was directly a result of our star studded midfield group completely losing control and any semblance of defensive shape in 8 minutes of utter mayhem, so these conversarions absolutely should have happened 12 months ago. If those conversations are 12 months late, that is better than not having them at all.

It's unconscionable that the playing and coaching group didn't forensically examine the catastrophic failures of the last 38 minutes of the GF.

[bornadog]

It's unconscionable that the playing and coaching group didn't forensically examine the catastrophic failures of the last 38 minutes of the GF.

I think they would have and adjustments were made - our centre clearance work is the best in the AFL. What we are finding now is our defence is a major issue with a number of players not in form this year and the system is broken. I don't like having to rely on the mids to help the defence as it is very taxing on them.

[Grantysghost]

I think they would have and adjustments were made - our centre clearance work is the best in the AFL. What we are finding now is our defence is a major issue with a number of players not in form this year and the system is broken. I don't like having to rely on the mids to help the defence as it is very taxing on them.

How do you determine our centre clearance work is the best in the afl?

[azabob]

I think they would have and adjustments were made - our centre clearance work is the best in the AFL. What we are finding now is our defence is a major issue with a number of players not in form this year and the system is broken. I don't like having to rely on the mids to help the defence as it is very taxing on them.

Post clearance contest we are very average and we can’t defend without the football. The mids play a major part in this.

Either way Beveridge and co have a big off season.

[Grantysghost]

Post clearance contest we are very average and we can’t defend without the football. The mids play a major part in this.

Either way Beveridge and co have a big off season.

Be nice to have a more forensic breakdown of clearances too.

Freo mightve got less, but they were absolutely more effective.

Sheer numbers don't give the whole picture.

Hitouts/hitouts to advantage type scenario.

[bornadog]

How do you determine our centre clearance work is the best in the afl?

Ranked one

[bornadog]

Post clearance contest we are very average and we can’t defend without the football. The mids play a major part in this.

Either way Beveridge and co have a big off season.

Can't keep blaming the mids.

Our bottom 6 players are a real concern along with the backline. Too much is left to too few.

[Grantysghost]

Ranked one

Total clearances. Effective might be another more realistic determiner of "best".

It's like having the most shots at goal, missing a large percentage and claiming to be the best.

[Bulldog Joe]

I think they would have and adjustments were made - our centre clearance work is the best in the AFL. What we are finding now is our defence is a major issue with a number of players not in form this year and the system is broken. I don't like having to rely on the mids to help the defence as it is very taxing on them.

Is there any team that gives up more goals from Centre Clearance.

We are abominable when we don't get the clearance and mostly problematic when we do.

[bornadog]

Is there any team that gives up more goals from Centre Clearance.

We are abominable when we don't get the clearance and mostly problematic when we do.

The issue is defence

[DOG GOD]

He's 31 years old and is yet another midfielder but would Liam Shiels be of any interest to us short term? He's used to working in midfields as the quality B grader that supports the others, is tough as hell, could provide some leadership and Hawthorn are trying to move to the next generation. If we are going all in one the next two years (Lobb and Jones both being old would indicate this) then could he help? (Obviously assuming we lose atleast Dunkley which opens a spot somewhere)

I rate him, and would not be against getting him, but I also feel we have a similar type in McLean if he can be given a go. What I do like about Shiels is that he is willing to sacrifice his game for the better of the team. None of our current midfield crop are willing to do that.

[soupman]

I rate him, and would not be against getting him, but I also feel we have a similar type in McLean if he can be given a go. What I do like about Shiels is that he is willing to sacrifice his game for the better of the team. None of our current midfield crop are willing to do that.

I like McLean as well, but realistically outside of an unaccountable 2017 in there and a brief solid run in 2020 he has never been able to perform in a role as a midfielder that well, and is coming back off two knee recos, he's a long way from bankable.

Besides I think I'm hoping someone like Shiels adds more steel to our midfield accountability through his experience and influence he can have on others, something McLean doesn't have.