Hawthorn racism review

[Mofra]

The afl stated they knew about it once the report was given to Hawks, approximately 2 weeks before the abc news.
It's a good blend of fact and fiction by an Essendon supporter

It was reported to have been referred to the AFL Integrity commission as soon as it was complete, which would be standard practice.

[bornadog]

Peter Gordon to represent AFL.

The AFL have engaged legal heavy hitter and former Western Bulldogs president Peter Gordon to represent the league, ahead of an independent investigation into Hawthorn’s treatment of their Indigenous players.

Gordon, a senior partner at Gordon Legal, has previously acted for the AFL in other legal matters, including when former Magpie Heritier Lumumba instigated legal action against the AFL in the Supreme Court.


His appointment came on a day the federal government’s leading figure on reconciliation blasted the league over its treatment of First Nations players, while Hawthorn chief executive Justin Reeves admitted the claims had been “disturbing”, and it was now “an important time for reflection, listening and learning”.

Press link above for full story

[azabob]

I don't. Footy change-rooms are interesting places and footy change-rooms with First Nations players are even more interesting. The First Nations boys will sit TOGETHER. They will do everything TOGETHER. They will HAPPILY engage with anyone who wants to engage (as Jack Trengove will tell you from his time at Port) but it can be a hard 'circle' to approach. Hodge and co could have been 'friendly' with Rioli and enjoyed playing with him without ever being part of the 'circle'...which would mean he would have always remained an outsider.

Let me re-iterate. The 'CIRCLE' will be open to anyone. But anyone who wants to be at a more than 'hey/seeya' relationship level is going to have to make the first move. The First Nations boys will be WELCOMING but they wont INVITE you to join...

I don't want to sound like a broken record but I've said this stuff before - people in Victoria, generally speaking - don't have enough experience/exposure in talking too/spending time with First Nations people to actually 'get' this sort of thing. Watch the 'brother boys' from oppo teams chatting together after a game...there is an unspoken connection for so many of them BECAUSE they have fought through the sort of things being reported by Jackson to get where they are...






This part is frustrating. These aren't 'allegations'. Jackson is reporting what he has been told. Fagan and Clarkson were offered right of reply. They chose not to respond. This part of it is doing my head in and I just don't understand why so many people in the community seem to think that Jackson would have written an article with a foundation in b.s. They aren't allegations. This happened. The details of exactly WHO is responsible (here's a hint - it's Andrew Newland) remain somewhat unclear but there is no 'believe/don't believe' element to the story.

Thank you for your perspective. I freely admit in my post my exposure and understanding of First Nations People is extremely limited. The commentary by white, male media in radio and print has been nothing short of embarrassing. They freely admit what has “happened” is terrible and it is always followed very quickly by the inevitable BUT and then try to justify or lesson the actions of those involved.

[jeemak]

Thank you for your perspective. I freely admit in my post my exposure and understanding of First Nations People is extremely limited. The commentary by white, male media in radio and print has been nothing short of embarrassing. They freely admit what has “happened” is terrible and it is always followed very quickly by the inevitable BUT and then try to justify or lesson the actions of those involved.

Imagine how things might change if they just stopped at what has happened is terrible, followed up by we're sorry this has happened, to be followed up again with everyone who has experienced this needs support and we are committed to providing it (and actually provide it).

It's not the same as people who come forward with claims of sexual violence committed against them - both issues are important in needing to be dealt with (but are inherently different), but the themes in responses are. Acknowledge it's bad, acknowledge we don't accept it, and pledge and follow through with support and justice as required.

There's a perception out there victims of these issues haven't gone through the wringer ten times over before actually making a stand and coming out. The commentariat cheapens the stance by underplaying how sickening reliving over and again it must be to the victims before they take the courageous step to finally voice what happened to them.

It is embarrassing and is a sign of a lack of basic civility and compassion in what is supposed to be a developed society.

[Swoop]

This part is frustrating. These aren't 'allegations'. Jackson is reporting what he has been told. Fagan and Clarkson were offered right of reply. They chose not to respond. This part of it is doing my head in and I just don't understand why so many people in the community seem to think that Jackson would have written an article with a foundation in b.s. They aren't allegations. This happened. The details of exactly WHO is responsible (here's a hint - it's Andrew Newland) remain somewhat unclear but there is no 'believe/don't believe' element to the story.

This is the part that seems to get lost on people. The victims haven't come forward with these issues, they were approached and asked about their experiences. It is more testimony as opposed to allegations.

[1eyedog]

I don't. Footy change-rooms are interesting places and footy change-rooms with First Nations players are even more interesting. The First Nations boys will sit TOGETHER. They will do everything TOGETHER. They will HAPPILY engage with anyone who wants to engage (as Jack Trengove will tell you from his time at Port) but it can be a hard 'circle' to approach. Hodge and co could have been 'friendly' with Rioli and enjoyed playing with him without ever being part of the 'circle'...which would mean he would have always remained an outsider.

Let me re-iterate. The 'CIRCLE' will be open to anyone. But anyone who wants to be at a more than 'hey/seeya' relationship level is going to have to make the first move. The First Nations boys will be WELCOMING but they wont INVITE you to join...

I don't want to sound like a broken record but I've said this stuff before - people in Victoria, generally speaking - don't have enough experience/exposure in talking too/spending time with First Nations people to actually 'get' this sort of thing. Watch the 'brother boys' from oppo teams chatting together after a game...there is an unspoken connection for so many of them BECAUSE they have fought through the sort of things being reported by Jackson to get where they are...






This part is frustrating. These aren't 'allegations'. Jackson is reporting what he has been told. Fagan and Clarkson were offered right of reply. They chose not to respond. This part of it is doing my head in and I just don't understand why so many people in the community seem to think that Jackson would have written an article with a foundation in b.s. They aren't allegations. This happened. The details of exactly WHO is responsible (here's a hint - it's Andrew Newland) remain somewhat unclear but there is no 'believe/don't believe' element to the story.

You got it pretty well right here. If you want in you gotta be in all the time otherwise you're out. As a white fella you're coming from a long way back.

[Swoop]

I don't understand why Brisbane had to come out and make the statement "we stand by Chris."

It undermines the investigation and also discredits those who have provided statements. These people didn't come forward, they were asked about their experiences. I would hate for this to become a 'we believe him and not you' situation.

[GVGjr]

I don't understand why Brisbane had to come out and make the statement "we stand by Chris."

It undermines the investigation and also discredits those who have provided statements. These people didn't come forward, they were asked about their experiences. I would hate for this to become a 'we believe him and not you' situation.

It's a tricky one given the seriousness of the accusations I think it should supersede any innocent until proven guilty or clubs standing by their players/coaches sentiment.

[MrMahatma]

I don't understand why Brisbane had to come out and make the statement "we stand by Chris."

It undermines the investigation and also discredits those who have provided statements. These people didn't come forward, they were asked about their experiences. I would hate for this to become a 'we believe him and not you' situation.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

You could take the view that all Brisbane need to care about are their people, their players and their fans.

[jeemak]

They're probably shitting themselves about players possibly not wanting to be there......

[GVGjr]

They're probably shitting themselves about players possibly not wanting to be there......

Good point, potentially losing the coach might not sit well with sponsors, fans and players.

[Ozza]

I don't think we should be under any illusions that Fagan or Clarkson won't be coaching next year. Of course they'll be coaching. Its the way things work. The AFL and everyone else involved, will manufacture an outcome where lesser names in the context of AFL footy take the fall, and Fagan and Clarkson will undergo some training.

[GVGjr]

I don't think we should be under any illusions that Fagan or Clarkson won't be coaching next year. Of course they'll be coaching. Its the way things work. The AFL and everyone else involved, will manufacture an outcome where lesser names in the context of AFL footy take the fall, and Fagan and Clarkson will undergo some training.

You would hope we see the bigger picture but the AFL has often been able to work through problems in a way that doesn't bring the competition a lot of negativity.

[bulldogtragic]

I don't think we should be under any illusions that Fagan or Clarkson won't be coaching next year. Of course they'll be coaching. Its the way things work. The AFL and everyone else involved, will manufacture an outcome where lesser names in the context of AFL footy take the fall, and Fagan and Clarkson will undergo some training.

The former development manager, now suspended from his current school coaching role better expect to be the ‘patsy’. He looks like an easy fall guy to demonise. Or if he gets looked after by a benefactor into the future, could jump on the grenade. If he does, that’s the easiest manipulation ‘to avoid responsibility and change’. I think in Latin it’s the AFEL creed.

[Ozza]

You would hope we see the bigger picture but the AFL has often been able to work through problems in a way that doesn't bring the competition a lot of negativity.

They don't REALLY want to find these testimonies to be true and accurate. They want to arrive at a far watered down version.

As far as I'm concerned, the league failed the Adelaide-camp saga and they failed Adam Goodes. The degree to which club and league failed Heritier Lumumba I'm unsure about as the whole scenario was a lot messier to be able to follow - but it sits uncomfortably. So I just have no faith in the league's sincerity in these matters.