Hawthorn racism review

[Rocco Jones]

I Think You Should Leave reference duly noted and greatly appreciated.

[Happy Days]

I Think You Should Leave reference duly noted and greatly appreciated.

Oh my god did you see Caleb’s hat?

[Rocco Jones]

Oh my god did you see Caleb’s hat?

Lol. It's my favourite comedy ever and that's my favourite sketch.

[hujsh]

Maybe we should take Gil's bare butt out of his suit and spank him
Maybe you can do it Happy Days

[Happy Days]

Maybe we should take Gil's bare butt out of his suit and spank him
Maybe you can do it Happy Days

I can’t I’m just too buried in my phone.

[jeemak]

In fear of being labelled a philistine which show are you talking about?

[Swoop]

In fear of being labelled a philistine which show are you talking about?

I think you should leave ��

[Grantysghost]

In fear of being labelled a philistine which show are you talking about?

The Big Gig.

[Happy Days]

I think you should leave ��

Only Emmy winner that can land a tre flip.

[Twodogs]

Lol. It's my favourite comedy ever and that's my favourite sketch.

The only doll that poops for me. Or The Day Robert Palins Murdered Me.

[josie]

So, Clarkson and Fagan are not entitled to any presumption of innocence ? Just because they are accused, they must be guilty ?

If you read the abc articles and realise it’s multiple folks telling similar stories, along with unnamed ex assistant coach supporting statements (that racism did occur) I’m surmising if it was a proper, truly independent trial then it is unlikely fagan and Clarkson are innocent. I do not trust afl to run an independent and thorough investigation. I think the afl should open truly independent investigations into all clubs. Unfortunately I think it’s likely to be a wider problem then just hawthorn fc. The outcome of the separate Worksafe vic investigation will be interesting.

[mjp]

Unfortunately I think it’s likely to be a wider problem then just hawthorn fc.

I agree with everything you have written.

With the section I have cut out, I agree...BUT. Right now, the focus is - and rightly should be - on resolving the 'Hawthorn situation'. I totally understand where Brisbane (and Fagan) and North (and Clarkson) are coming from - but to be blunt they are wrong to be acting this way.

This issue has - because of financial implications - become about legal innocence/guilt (as raised by Jeanette54) and I do get that. We aren't dealing with a strictly criminal case here though and terms like 'guilty/innocent' are sort of irrelevant. I don't know what to say really. I think back to the Essendon saga and the Dr writing a letter to the club that basically said "I don't care whether what we are doing here is inside the rules or outside the rules but it is NOT A GOOD LOOK and not reflective of the way we want our club to be thought of". I feel the same way here.

North's situation to me is cut and dried. Clarkson wasn't eligible to start work until November 1st. This whole saga would SURELY be sufficient grounds for some kind of breach...he doesn't have the job now and back to the drawing board.

Brisbane are in a MORE complicated situation as they have 5-years of Fagan and would have been able to observe the way he has dealt with such issues at their club...there is a 'personal history/personal relationships' piece to the Brisbane story which would be hard to navigate. Ultimately they should have done the following:

1/. Told Chris they love him and told everyone they love Chris. And say he has great relationships with all the First Nations players at Brisbane.

2/. Stood him down until this is resolved.

And by the way, if Bevo was implicated during his time at Hawthorn - and I have seen/read nothing to indicate he has been - we should be doing EXACTLY the same thing.

[Twodogs]

I agree with everything you have written.

With the section I have cut out, I agree...BUT. Right now, the focus is - and rightly should be - on resolving the 'Hawthorn situation'. I totally understand where Brisbane (and Fagan) and North (and Clarkson) are coming from - but to be blunt they are wrong to be acting this way.

This issue has - because of financial implications - become about legal innocence/guilt (as raised by Jeanette54) and I do get that. We aren't dealing with a strictly criminal case here though and terms like 'guilty/innocent' are sort of irrelevant. I don't know what to say really. I think back to the Essendon saga and the Dr writing a letter to the club that basically said "I don't care whether what we are doing here is inside the rules or outside the rules but it is NOT A GOOD LOOK and not reflective of the way we want our club to be thought of". I feel the same way here.

North's situation to me is cut and dried. Clarkson wasn't eligible to start work until November 1st. This whole saga would SURELY be sufficient grounds for some kind of breach...he doesn't have the job now and back to the drawing board.

Brisbane are in a MORE complicated situation as they have 5-years of Fagan and would have been able to observe the way he has dealt with such issues at their club...there is a 'personal history/personal relationships' piece to the Brisbane story which would be hard to navigate. Ultimately they should have done the following:

1/. Told Chris they love him and told everyone they love Chris. And say he has great relationships with all the First Nations players at Brisbane.

2/. Stood him down until this is resolved.

And by the way, if Bevo was implicated during his time at Hawthorn - and I have seen/read nothing to indicate he has been - we should be doing EXACTLY the same thing.

I agree completely. This isn't so much a legal matter as it is a moral matter, but the clubs involved are trying to turn it into a legal matter so they can hide behind the "innocent until proven guilty" dichotomy.

Apart from anything else this isn't a criminal investigation so the burden of proof is different to 'innocent until proven guilty'.

[bornadog]

I agree completely. This isn't so much a legal matter as it is a moral matter, but the clubs involved are trying to turn it into a legal matter so they can hide behind the "innocent until proven guilty" dichotomy.

Apart from anything else this isn't a criminal investigation so the burden of proof is different to 'innocent until proven guilty'.

Where does something like pressuring a teenage girl to have an abortion sit? Pressure that says your boyfriends career may be on the line? Is it blackmail of sorts? Not sure if there is a law broken or not, but certainly it is not on.

[Sedat]

Where does something like pressuring a teenage girl to have an abortion sit? Pressure that says your boyfriends career may be on the line? Is it blackmail of sorts? Not sure if there is a law broken or not, but certainly it is not on.

All I will add to this discussion is that if the above is categorically proven to have occurred and that there were no mitigating genuine welfare/care circumstances for the player/s in question and their families, I daresay every single person on 'woof' (or in the entire football community for that matter) would be on a unity ticket wanting and expecting Clarkson and Fagan (and anyone else involved) to be permanently banished from the game and also face any potential legal consequences.

The above are incredibly serious and distressing allegations and need to be forensically examined. No outcome of convenience will be palatable here - either the allegations will be proven or they won't.