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  1. #286
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    Re: Rating the 2022 Trade Period - After 7.30pm Wednesday Night

    Quote Originally Posted by lemmon View Post

    I think the most likely scenario if we followed through on that threat was that Dunkley puts himself into the National Draft, the Lions use the pick 21 that we got in the trade and we end up looking a bit stupid out of the whole thing.
    And then they would have missed out on Fletcher wouldnt they?

  2. #287
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    Re: Rating the 2022 Trade Period - After 7.30pm Wednesday Night

    Quote Originally Posted by jazzadogs View Post
    Happily is a stretch. I think Power would have been bloody pissed off that his hand was forced in such a way. Once Dunkley nominated Brisbane, ridiculous AFL trade culture says that we basically just had to cop whatever they would give us. We tried to get players and the players refused.

    Sending him to the PSD is madness. It was a crap deal, but it was the best we could do at the time.
    Yes, it might feel like a statement move to send someone to the PSD, however at the end of the day you're only hurting yourself. Nose to spite the face thing.
    Clarke and another late first is better than nothing.

  3. #288
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    Re: Rating the 2022 Trade Period - After 7.30pm Wednesday Night

    Quote Originally Posted by Grantysghost View Post
    Yes, it might feel like a statement move to send someone to the PSD, however at the end of the day you're only hurting yourself. Nose to spite the face thing.
    Clarke and another late first is better than nothing.
    lets not dress it up, 2 picks in the 20s is not late firsts.

  4. #289
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    Re: Rating the 2022 Trade Period - After 7.30pm Wednesday Night

    Quote Originally Posted by lemmon View Post
    That's my point though - he still ends up at Brisbane. Like Martin still got to Carlton and Luke Ball got to Collingwood through the National Draft.

    I think the most likely scenario if we followed through on that threat was that Dunkley puts himself into the National Draft, the Lions use the pick 21 that we got in the trade and we end up looking a bit stupid out of the whole thing.

    'Send them into the draft' doesn't work because no club will touch a player who doesn't want to be there and burn their draft currency in the process - Collingwood was put into the same situation with Ollie Henry but at least we got some service out of Dunkley.

    I genuinely can't think of a time when an out-of-contract player didn't get to the club they wanted to go to. Jade Rawlings maybe?
    Ryan O'Keefe? He wanted to get to the Blues and there were threats of PSD.

  5. #290
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    Re: Rating the 2022 Trade Period - After 7.30pm Wednesday Night

    Quote Originally Posted by Grantysghost View Post
    Ryan O'Keefe? He wanted to get to the Blues and there were threats of PSD.
    Papley is another. He is entrenched now.
    we are too nice.

  6. #291
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    Re: Rating the 2022 Trade Period - After 7.30pm Wednesday Night

    Quote Originally Posted by Topdog View Post
    lets not dress it up, 2 picks in the 20s is not late firsts.
    Agree it's a shit deal. Sick of picks pushing back, I guess the Dogs can't complain we've done it with Darcy and Marra.

  7. #292
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    Re: Rating the 2022 Trade Period - After 7.30pm Wednesday Night

    So you're not actually saying we send him to PSD, you're saying that we don't do a trade and then with the threat of PSD he turns around and signs a 5 year deal with us?

    We tried the whole "refuse because the offer isn't good enough" thing at the end of 2020 - we're also being retrospectively criticised for that despite the feeling at the time being that the offer wasn't good enough.

    Fact is when a b&f winner chooses to go to a top 4 team, you're not going to get adequate value.

  8. #293
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    Re: Rating the 2022 Trade Period - After 7.30pm Wednesday Night

    Quote Originally Posted by jazzadogs View Post
    So you're not actually saying we send him to PSD, you're saying that we don't do a trade and then with the threat of PSD he turns around and signs a 5 year deal with us?

    We tried the whole "refuse because the offer isn't good enough" thing at the end of 2020 - we're also being retrospectively criticised for that despite the feeling at the time being that the offer wasn't good enough.

    Fact is when a b&f winner chooses to go to a top 4 team, you're not going to get adequate value.
    The part that nearly irked me as much was Pickering in with the Lions cohort looking like he was laughing in disbelief that we'd actually want to hold out for a good deal.
    I know he got us Boyd but man I dislike that bloke.

  9. #294
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    Re: Rating the 2022 Trade Period - After 7.30pm Wednesday Night

    Quote Originally Posted by jazzadogs View Post
    So you're not actually saying we send him to PSD, you're saying that we don't do a trade and then with the threat of PSD he turns around and signs a 5 year deal with us?

    We tried the whole "refuse because the offer isn't good enough" thing at the end of 2020 - we're also being retrospectively criticised for that despite the feeling at the time being that the offer wasn't good enough.

    Fact is when a b&f winner chooses to go to a top 4 team, you're not going to get adequate value
    .
    Sorry that’s not a fact for every team. Tim Kelly AA in that year went to west coast for 2 firsts plus. Cameron 9 time leading gws goal kicker went for 3 first rounds to top 4 Geelong. Slightly different Tom Lynch went for pick 3 as a free agent but Gcs would have matched the bid if it was worse compensation.
    It’s arguable whether they got value for the players but none of them got reamed like us.

  10. #295
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    Re: Rating the 2022 Trade Period - After 7.30pm Wednesday Night

    Quote Originally Posted by JanLorMill View Post
    Sorry that?s not a fact for every team. Tim Kelly AA in that year went to west coast for 2 firsts plus. Cameron 9 time leading gws goal kicker went for 3 first rounds to top 4 Geelong. Slightly different Tom Lynch went for pick 3 as a free agent but Gcs would have matched the bid if it was worse compensation.
    It?s arguable whether they got value for the players but none of them got reamed like us.
    I do hear what you're saying and think those are good examples, but I think it really was a case of Brisbane simply not having the draft currency to hand over so Power was on a hiding to nothing in trying to extract some value out of the trade.

    I think the only way we were going to get something worthwhile was to get into a Lions player's ear and have them request a trade back the other way. Seems like we tried it with Lohmann who clearly wants to make his way with the Lions.

  11. #296
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    Re: Rating the 2022 Trade Period - After 7.30pm Wednesday Night

    Quote Originally Posted by lemmon View Post
    I do hear what you're saying and think those are good examples, but I think it really was a case of Brisbane simply not having the draft currency to hand over so Power was on a hiding to nothing in trying to extract some value out of the trade.

    I think the only way we were going to get something worthwhile was to get into a Lions player's ear and have them request a trade back the other way. Seems like we tried it with Lohmann who clearly wants to make his way with the Lions.
    Yep they needed points for Ashcroft and Fletcher. He could simply not have picked a worse side.

  12. #297
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    Re: Rating the 2022 Trade Period - After 7.30pm Wednesday Night

    Quote Originally Posted by Topdog View Post
    I'm all for getting a good reputation but sending him off for 0 1st round picks is absolutely terrible. Doing it for 1 would have been us being nice, remembering that we are also improving a rival by trading him there. Should have sent him to PSD.
    I'm not against this position but I'd imagine I'd lose it if he had have ended up at Essendon for nothing.
    As a club you also run the risk of alienating the playing group if you treat a premiership player and B&F winner that way.

    We didn't get an adequate return but Brisbanes hands were somewhat tied and unless we were confident we could get them to part with Lohmann they could always call our bluff.
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

  13. #298
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    Re: Rating the 2022 Trade Period - After 7.30pm Wednesday Night

    Quote Originally Posted by lemmon View Post
    I do hear what you're saying and think those are good examples, but I think it really was a case of Brisbane simply not having the draft currency to hand over so Power was on a hiding to nothing in trying to extract some value out of the trade.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grantysghost View Post
    Yep they needed points for Ashcroft and Fletcher. He could simply not have picked a worse side.
    I mean, they wanted points for Ashcroft and Fletcher just like they wanted Dunkley. You can't always get what you want. If there was a third first round father son for them last year it would have been obvious that something had to give, they couldn't have it all. As it stands they scraped through partially by securing Ashcroft with Pick 2. Part of me at the time thought that us bidding on Fletcher was vindictive, although he does look to be a very good player more than worthy of that selection.
    'And the Western suburbs erupt!'

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  15. #299
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    Re: Rating the 2022 Trade Period - After 7.30pm Wednesday Night

    Quote Originally Posted by jazzadogs View Post
    I think prime Bont means we should be actively chasing a flag. AA ruck English. Previous all Australians in Daniel, Dale, Macrae. One or two more years of Libba, Treloar, Liam Jones, JJ. Get more from developing Marra, Baz, Richards, JOD. Aim for Naughtons first year of 50+ goals. Lobb, Weightman both clearly AFL quality.

    That top portion of our list needs to be utilised. You can't look at Collingwood's list and tell me they are clearly better - they just have a well executed plan which maximises their strengths. We have weaknesses to fill, but our issue is mindset, not talent - and that can be changed.
    On the flipside, isn't it more likely that we get less out of the ageing Jones, JJ, Libba and Treloar? Bruce retired, Duryea and Keath on their last legs.

    Naughton might have another gear but he's already a very good player. His limitations (goalkicking) seem to be inherent. There's certainly growth in Marra and JOD. Richards, Baz and Weightman I'm less sure that there's growth, although Baz has had better years than 2023, and could at least return to his best form.

    I've been bullish on the upper echelon of the list as well, but they'll be declining in capability from here.

    Our coaching team is seeing a significant shake up, and that's positive but will the new personnel gel as soon as next year?

    Nothing would please me more than to be proven wrong next year, but if we go into this trade period looking once again to bolster the now at the expense of the future, and then fall short, there could be some really rough years ahead.
    'And the Western suburbs erupt!'

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  17. #300
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    Re: Rating the 2022 Trade Period - After 7.30pm Wednesday Night

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorlibo View Post
    On the flipside, isn't it more likely that we get less out of the ageing Jones, JJ, Libba and Treloar? Bruce retired, Duryea and Keath on their last legs.

    Naughton might have another gear but he's already a very good player. His limitations (goalkicking) seem to be inherent. There's certainly growth in Marra and JOD. Richards, Baz and Weightman I'm less sure that there's growth, although Baz has had better years than 2023, and could at least return to his best form.

    I've been bullish on the upper echelon of the list as well, but they'll be declining in capability from here.

    Our coaching team is seeing a significant shake up, and that's positive but will the new personnel gel as soon as next year?

    Nothing would please me more than to be proven wrong next year, but if we go into this trade period looking once again to bolster the now at the expense of the future, and then fall short, there could be some really rough years ahead.
    Trade targets have been James Jordon (22yo), Brynn Teakle (23yo) and Nick Coffield (22yo). We're also trying to get pick 4 to access an elite young player, as well as likely securing Croft. I think that's enough focus on the future?

    I think we're balancing it well. I don't think we are at a point where the list should be completely gutted. If we can replace guys like Roarke, Crozier, Bruce with 22/23yo I think that's a net win.

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