Melbourne's two premier ruck set-up

[bornadog]

I never said that.

I didn't say you did. That is more my opinion - we have to re think what a ruckman is now.

The traditional ruckman in the past was a lumbering guy that tapped the ball to his rovers, but as Sedat says, they are now different, they have to try and win the stoppage as well, plus they need to play well around the ground like an over sized midfielder.

Mids now are taller than ruckman in the past. One of the best all time ruckman was our own John Schultz, Brownlow medalist and represented Victoria 24 times - he was 191cm.

[Topdog]

Maybe not last year but Melbourne's whole deal in 2021 was dominance in the ruck, coming to a head with what I'm told was a relentless two headed assault from Gawn and Jackson in the GF. In fact, we've had a front row seat to the effect of superior ruck play 3 straight finals series.

I agree that you can succeed with mediocre ruckwork but that doesn't mean it can't be an area of dominance to build around, especially with a midfield as good as Melbourne's is. It's a bold strategy that potentially puts their biggest strength in the best position to succeed. I wish my team would be so clever.

You have missed a very key phrase from mjp though - highly competitive - unfortunately for us this is a big weakness of Timmy's

[bulldogsthru&thru]

You have missed a very key phrase from mjp though - highly competitive - unfortunately for us this is a big weakness of Timmy's

Yep. I mean highly competitive is a necessity in any position (and it's a key reason our midfield frequently falls away) but it is CRUCIAL for a ruck because it sets the direction at each stoppage. I agree we don't need a world beater. Just someone who can hold their own each contest. Sweet can do this but unfortunately can't do anything else and neither can Martin (who is 107. Thanks for the correction EW)

[1eyedog]

Grundy is a liability when Gawn is in the ruck.

[MrMahatma]

Grundy is a liability when Gawn is in the ruck.

Gawn isn't exactly Paul Salmon when it comes to playing fwd either.

I applaud their "let's give this a go" approach... but I think this makes them a worse team than without Grundy, cause they're going to essentially have a witches hat in the fwd line 100% of the time (Ok, Max is a bit better than that... but he's no star fwd).

[Bulldog4life]

I feel like 3rd man up and (to a lesser extent) 6-6-6 have made ruckmen more, not less important. It's deeply unfortunate that two exceptional ruckmen are in the same team, and that that team is already dominant. Mind you, that's the moral of this trade period - no equalisation for trades means the rich get richer (salary cap is a joke when players will chase success).

However, Melbourne's weakness remains their forward line. Fritsch and to a lesser extent Pickett are scary good but they're the best of a pretty average bunch. their game plan is about shock clearances and movement forward so rapidly that a team bound by 6-6-6 can't respond, which offsets the forward line's weaknesses. Getting Grunmdy signals a retreat to a gameplan where you just overpower your opponent by brute force in 2/3 segments of the ground. It will look awesome, but their structure isn't particularly flexible and I think any midfield/ruck negation tactics will continue to work on them despite Grundy.

It's not good news for the Dogs, however. We over-rate their offence because our defence is completely abysmal and it's always a crapshoot as to whose midfield gets on top. Their rock-solid defence and wings - specifically Langdon - make their transitions better than ours and give them the edge over us. Because of the bad matchups, Grundy makes Melbourne scarier for us, and our improved forward line won't necessarily be the difference we need it to be when we play them.

I think Hunter is a more fraught acquisition for Melbourne than they recognise. How do you think Hunter's problems with alcohol will go in a club helmed by a gambling addict with a tendency to self-aggrandise? I think this is a terrible move for him and I'll be really surprised if he flourishes at Melbourne. I'm not scared of him on their wing because he's so susceptible to off-field stuff.

Hunter and Cordy will shine at their new club's Mad Monday.