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18-03-2023, 11:39 PM
#391
Re: WB Game Day V Melbourne R1 2023 - Saturday March 18, 7:25PM, MCG
I'm trying to stay upbeat, it's only one game after all, and it's a long season, but I'm really struggling. I actually don't think Melbourne covered themselves in glory; we just turned into witches' hats late in the second. They still made plenty of awful mistakes and we couldn't make them pay. Additionally, they came out blasting last year as well and then fell apart after 10 games. They have a long road to go too.
Some thoughts:
Our midfield is not as good as we think it is and we can't rely on it the way we used to. Libba is brilliant, Bont superb, but Macrae is dwindling, Smith has confidence issues, and Treloar is past his best. Even with Dunkley last year we struggled to deal with Oliver and Petracca. Melbourne just have a better midfield than we do, and so do a lot of teams now. We'll likely tear up lesser midfields, but we'll struggle with Geelong, Sydney, and Brisbane, probably Freo and Collingwood too. We're in the top 6 midfields, but I don't think we're top 3 anymore. I don't know how we fix this, given how much we've come to rely on them to carry weak bookends. To be honest, we might have fallen into rebuild territory here by accident. Smith is our only real up-and-coming midfielder. Where is the next generation of talent there?
The forward line will take time to cohere. Currently there's no reliable forward craft on display in the whole forward six. The strategy tonight was still to kick it to a giant blob with Naughton in the middle. Far from tearing their best defender away from Marra or Lobb, it just meant that that one defender - usually Lever - could cover our whole forward line in the one pack. I feel like this will slowly get better, but it will likely take several more years. Marra has moments of total brilliance but he's still not there yet. Darcy is a year behind him. I think after tonight I'm in the "Naughton to defence" camp. I doubt he'll ever become Tomahawk, and with zero craftiness he's preventing our other forwards developing chemistry with the midfield. The forward line is also still incomplete despite our investment in it as we have no decent crumbers. After tonight, I'm mad we took Weightman over Pickett. Sure he did that dog act on Smith, but it only seemed to fire him up even more. If one of our guys did that, he'd crumple. Regardless of positional or structure changes, I think this one will just take time.
We had no confidence tonight and we looked unfit. We still look for 2:1s on the ball carrier and allow the quick exit while failing to stick the tackle. We still can't take contested marks around the ground. We lose every footrace and our zone defence constantly fails to cut off quick players like Pickett and Langdon. No wonder our players don't really trust each other. It's too late to fix the fitness for this year (though we always seem to come back slow). The confidence is far more worrying. Libba is the only one who gets mad when we're losing. Dale and Bont were valiant, but there wasn't rage there. I can accept that we're not an angry team, and that we like to triumph over adversity with skill. But we need something to fire us up when we are losing. They've mentioned this as a problem in pressers. How does it get fixed?
What can you even say about Jones? Much lauded as the saviour of our defence, had one disposal then went off injured leaving us badly exposed yet again. Not really his fault, and Bruce did pretty well in defence, but we have zero depth here, and no other options (except Naughton). God I miss Moz and Boyd.
I don't know what to make of all of this. I hope we're just underdone and we'll see dramatic improvement from next week. But I won't trust a win against the Saints, and I hate not knowing which Bulldogs team are going to show up each week - the sad, slow, introspective one that just goes to water, or the silky, tenacious one that plays with focus and style.
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18-03-2023, 11:42 PM
#392
Re: WB Game Day V Melbourne R1 2023 - Saturday March 18, 7:25PM, MCG
Originally Posted by
anfo27
Agree 100%
How do we correct this?
At present we are the worst team without the football. Love what Bevo has given us over the journey but is this in his wheelhouse to fix? Do we need the best defensive assistant coach then?
At present its round 1 & all that crap about 'oh its only round 1' stuff is just that crap! Its how we lost. Those anti-defence tactics will not get us anywhere. Can defensive philosophy be changed after 1 game?
I think it's a player empowerment vs. command and control issue. And we give our players too much bandwidth for whatever reason, whether it be ego protection or a genuine management philosophy agreed by the coaches and players.
Everybody sees it. Libba's the worst offender at it too, when it gets out our back from the centre it's often Libba not holding and chasing the footy. Do we tell Libba that we only want him to pick the times to go when he definitely will win the ball, or do we tell him to go all the time and hope percentages work in our favour?
I really don't know why we choose not to nullify the centre bounce and let players roll back and forth to balance numbers across the ground, but I'm not as smart as whoever's coaching us.
Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.
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18-03-2023, 11:45 PM
#393
Re: WB Game Day V Melbourne R1 2023 - Saturday March 18, 7:25PM, MCG
Originally Posted by
angelopetraglia
We actually won the contested ball today by 16 and we had 5 more clearances. It is not just the hard edge of winning the ball. It is our ability to defend without the ball in hand as you said. I don't think Macca's teams were very good at that either. We would win the contested ball stats yet still lose.
It is our defensive shape and player profiles. It is hard to change during the season. That is what is so alarming after round #1. What have we been doing all offseason?
It's also the turnovers/ skill errors. Missed kicks, dropped marks. The missed handball from Libba early when Smith was going to break just showed a complete lack of respect for the footy that often creeps into Libba's game and did a few more times tonight after it. Libba gets a free pass and I'm a bit critical of him, to be honest.
Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.
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18-03-2023, 11:46 PM
#394
Re: WB Game Day V Melbourne R1 2023 - Saturday March 18, 7:25PM, MCG
Originally Posted by
bornadog
Maybe he gets cited for this too
Yeah but you have to look past that and just say that everyone loves how Picket goes about it when he's attacking the head of prone players and that we need characters who punch people in the face in the game.
Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.
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18-03-2023, 11:48 PM
#395
Re: WB Game Day V Melbourne R1 2023 - Saturday March 18, 7:25PM, MCG
I don't think I can just lament the same old crap for yet another season. An entire refresh has been long overdue. Another mid table finish awaits us but this time we won't be so lucky to have Carlton fall over themselves so that we sneak into the 8. I'm predicting 11th this season.
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18-03-2023, 11:49 PM
#396
Re: WB Game Day V Melbourne R1 2023 - Saturday March 18, 7:25PM, MCG
Originally Posted by
jeemak
It's also the turnovers/ skill errors. Missed kicks, dropped marks. The missed handball from Libba early when Smith was going to break just showed a complete lack of respect for the footy that often creeps into Libba's game and did a few more times tonight after it. Libba gets a free pass and I'm a bit critical of him, to be honest.
He isn't perfect but he ain't our worst culprit. But yes, our skills were horrific all night. Dropped chest marks that resulted in two goals. So many missed opportunities when we had the chance to slice them open on the counter.
When they go their chances. They hit targets and made it look easy.
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19-03-2023, 12:00 AM
#397
Re: WB Game Day V Melbourne R1 2023 - Saturday March 18, 7:25PM, MCG
Originally Posted by
jeemak
All I'm reading here is jeemak was right when he said that Bmac had a huge influence over our playing style in the early Bevo years and everyone who derided him owes him an apology (or just BT, I'd be fine if only BT said sorry).
There wss a toughness with the 2016 team . CLAY, M.boyd , Pickent they would tackle hard and put fear into the oppsossition . Our tackles did not stick tongiht .
My obseevarions were :
- Treloar was very poor up until middle of third quarter, he let Pettraca off the hook and did not defend
- we are crying out for crumbing small fwd who can read the drop off the ball from packs and put manic pressure. JJ is not the answer
- we .got terrible fumbles tongiht and team as skilled as Melbourne quickly got possession and torched us on the rebound
- i was hoping we were a 3 goal deficit team at the end of the third . We are worst than that
-english is not a number 1 ruck. The gap between English vs Gwan/Grundy was daylight
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19-03-2023, 12:06 AM
#398
Re: WB Game Day V Melbourne R1 2023 - Saturday March 18, 7:25PM, MCG
Originally Posted by
macca
There wss a toughness with the 2016 team . CLAY, M.boyd , Pickent they would tackle hard and put fear into the oppsossition . Our tackles did not stick tongiht .
My obseevarions were :
- Treloar was very poor up until middle of third quarter, he let Pettraca off the hook and did not defend
- we are crying out for crumbing small fwd who can read the drop off the ball from packs and put manic pressure. JJ is not the answer
- we .got terrible fumbles tongiht and team as skilled as Melbourne quickly got possession and torched us on the rebound
- i was hoping we were a 3 goal deficit team at the end of the third . We are worst than that
-english is not a number 1 ruck. The gap between English vs Gwan/Grundy was daylight
Have you asked Tim English about whether he's the man? He'd disagree with you, politely, but also emphatically.
Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.
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19-03-2023, 12:06 AM
#399
Re: WB Game Day V Melbourne R1 2023 - Saturday March 18, 7:25PM, MCG
Originally Posted by
macca
There wss a toughness with the 2016 team . CLAY, M.boyd , Pickent they would tackle hard and put fear into the oppsossition . Our tackles did not stick tongiht .
My obseevarions were :
- Treloar was very poor up until middle of third quarter, he let Pettraca off the hook and did not defend
- we are crying out for crumbing small fwd who can read the drop off the ball from packs and put manic pressure. JJ is not the answer
- we .got terrible fumbles tongiht and team as skilled as Melbourne quickly got possession and torched us on the rebound
- i was hoping we were a 3 goal deficit team at the end of the third . We are worst than that
-english is not a number 1 ruck. The gap between English vs Gwan/Grundy was daylight
Treloar. A little tough. He is still building fitness. He offered a lot more than many others tonight.
Crumbing forward. Just a massive hole. We just don't have that type of player on our list and we have not had one for many years. A classy small crumbing player who makes something from nothing. They are worth their weight in gold.
Fumbles. We are normally a lot more skilled than what we showed tonight. That five goal burst took a lot of confidence away from the player IMHO. We are not that bad.
English. He ain't at their level in regards to ruck craft. He may never be at their level.
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19-03-2023, 12:10 AM
#400
Re: WB Game Day V Melbourne R1 2023 - Saturday March 18, 7:25PM, MCG
Originally Posted by
Boots
I'm trying to stay upbeat, it's only one game after all, and it's a long season, but I'm really struggling. I actually don't think Melbourne covered themselves in glory; we just turned into witches' hats late in the second. They still made plenty of awful mistakes and we couldn't make them pay. Additionally, they came out blasting last year as well and then fell apart after 10 games. They have a long road to go too.
Some thoughts:
Our midfield is not as good as we think it is and we can't rely on it the way we used to. Libba is brilliant, Bont superb, but Macrae is dwindling, Smith has confidence issues, and Treloar is past his best. Even with Dunkley last year we struggled to deal with Oliver and Petracca. Melbourne just have a better midfield than we do, and so do a lot of teams now. We'll likely tear up lesser midfields, but we'll struggle with Geelong, Sydney, and Brisbane, probably Freo and Collingwood too. We're in the top 6 midfields, but I don't think we're top 3 anymore. I don't know how we fix this, given how much we've come to rely on them to carry weak bookends. To be honest, we might have fallen into rebuild territory here by accident. Smith is our only real up-and-coming midfielder. Where is the next generation of talent there?
The forward line will take time to cohere. Currently there's no reliable forward craft on display in the whole forward six. The strategy tonight was still to kick it to a giant blob with Naughton in the middle. Far from tearing their best defender away from Marra or Lobb, it just meant that that one defender - usually Lever - could cover our whole forward line in the one pack. I feel like this will slowly get better, but it will likely take several more years. Marra has moments of total brilliance but he's still not there yet. Darcy is a year behind him. I think after tonight I'm in the "Naughton to defence" camp. I doubt he'll ever become Tomahawk, and with zero craftiness he's preventing our other forwards developing chemistry with the midfield. The forward line is also still incomplete despite our investment in it as we have no decent crumbers. After tonight, I'm mad we took Weightman over Pickett. Sure he did that dog act on Smith, but it only seemed to fire him up even more. If one of our guys did that, he'd crumple. Regardless of positional or structure changes, I think this one will just take time.
We had no confidence tonight and we looked unfit. We still look for 2:1s on the ball carrier and allow the quick exit while failing to stick the tackle. We still can't take contested marks around the ground. We lose every footrace and our zone defence constantly fails to cut off quick players like Pickett and Langdon. No wonder our players don't really trust each other. It's too late to fix the fitness for this year (though we always seem to come back slow). The confidence is far more worrying. Libba is the only one who gets mad when we're losing. Dale and Bont were valiant, but there wasn't rage there. I can accept that we're not an angry team, and that we like to triumph over adversity with skill. But we need something to fire us up when we are losing. They've mentioned this as a problem in pressers. How does it get fixed?
What can you even say about Jones? Much lauded as the saviour of our defence, had one disposal then went off injured leaving us badly exposed yet again. Not really his fault, and Bruce did pretty well in defence, but we have zero depth here, and no other options (except Naughton). God I miss Moz and Boyd.
I don't know what to make of all of this. I hope we're just underdone and we'll see dramatic improvement from next week. But I won't trust a win against the Saints, and I hate not knowing which Bulldogs team are going to show up each week - the sad, slow, introspective one that just goes to water, or the silky, tenacious one that plays with focus and style.
Passionate & thoughtful post Boots. I’d still prefer Cody as Kozzie is a sniper. We do need more hard nuts and speed. Agree our midfield is not in top few any more.
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19-03-2023, 12:14 AM
#401
Re: WB Game Day V Melbourne R1 2023 - Saturday March 18, 7:25PM, MCG
Wow that was disappointing enough to lose hope in the season and the team.
A bad start to the season and no excuses just not good enough.
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19-03-2023, 12:21 AM
#402
Re: WB Game Day V Melbourne R1 2023 - Saturday March 18, 7:25PM, MCG
Bevo presser.
-We did well to stay in the game early. The centre clearance count was 10-2 at one stage.
-We lost function forward of the ball. We didn't keep it in there often enough.
-The statistic we dropped off the most last year was the ability to defend the whole ground. Tonight it was largely how poor we used the ball which created those turnovers.
-Melbourne was good tonight. However, the perceived pressure aspect of the game got to us more than them. We had some good chances from turnovers that we should of made more of.
-The disappointing thing was the drop off at the end of the game. It was flattening.
-We hope that is an anomaly. We hope it doesn't happen again.
-You have to give the opposition credit. We just need to be better.
-We were in poor form with our ball use. An element of frustration crept in.
-The goals they got out the back, we have been working really hard to stop that. But it was off the back of some shallow entries. It is a work in progress. We need to do this better.
-Liam Jones. He has a knock to the neck. He is off for some scans. Hope he is OK.
-Brucy had a reasonable game as an intercept defender. Still trying to find his feet.
-Tall forwards tonight had a much tougher game against a seasoned Melbourne compared to North. We were a bit disjointed tonight.
-The four are never really out there together.
-Our medium smalls didn't have any impact at all forward of the ball.
-It is a hard forward line to play in tonight with the way we used the ball. We are a lot better than that.
-We need to build confidence in the boys who didn't have their best game tonight
-Pickett on Smith. I didn't see it. I can't comment on it. (Ha!)
-Cody. He is not in the next fortnight. Maybe in three weeks. Abductor groin issues can get nasty. We won't take any risks with him.
-Surface. We need to be better at keeping our feet. The surface was OK.
Short presser. Didn't really share much. Frustrated at the same elements as most the posters on WOOF.
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19-03-2023, 12:21 AM
#403
Re: WB Game Day V Melbourne R1 2023 - Saturday March 18, 7:25PM, MCG
"Its always good to win the Ashes test match'' - Libba, AFL Grand Final, 2016
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19-03-2023, 12:25 AM
#404
Re: WB Game Day V Melbourne R1 2023 - Saturday March 18, 7:25PM, MCG
Originally Posted by
angelopetraglia
Bevo presser.
-We did well to stay in the game early. The centre clearance count was 10-2 at one stage.
-We lost function forward of the ball. We didn't keep it in there often enough.
-The statistic we dropped off the most last year was the ability to defend the whole ground. Tonight it was largely how poor we used the ball which created those turnovers.
-Melbourne was good tonight. However, the perceived pressure aspect of the game got to us more than them. We had some good chances from turnovers that we should of made more of.
-The disappointing thing was the drop off at the end of the game. It was flattening.
-We hope that is an anomaly. We hope it doesn't happen again.
-You have to give the opposition credit. We just need to be better.
-We were in poor form with our ball use. An element of frustration crept in.
-The goals they got out the back, we have been working really hard to stop that. But it was off the back of some shallow entries. It is a work in progress. We need to do this better.
-Liam Jones. He has a knock to the neck. He is off for some scans. Hope he is OK.
-Brucy had a reasonable game as an intercept defender. Still trying to find his feet.
-Tall forwards tonight had a much tougher game against a seasoned Melbourne compared to North. We were a bit disjointed tonight.
-The four are never really out there together.
-Our medium smalls didn't have any impact at all forward of the ball.
-It is a hard forward line to play in tonight with the way we used the ball. We are a lot better than that.
-We need to build confidence in the boys who didn't have their best game tonight
-Pickett on Smith. I didn't see it. I can't comment on it. (Ha!)
-Cody. He is not in the next fortnight. Maybe in three weeks. Abductor groin issues can get nasty. We won't take any risks with him.
-Surface. We need to be better at keeping our feet. The surface was OK.
Short presser. Didn't really share much. Frustrated at the same elements as most the posters on WOOF.
Yep, Kossie was a **** act and if the AFL was serious they'd ban him for a few weeks to send a message.......is what should be said.
Otherwise pretty honest.
Nobody's looking for a puppeteer in today's wintry economic climate.
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19-03-2023, 12:29 AM
#405
Re: WB Game Day V Melbourne R1 2023 - Saturday March 18, 7:25PM, MCG
Originally Posted by
angelopetraglia
-The statistic we dropped off the most last year was the ability to defend the whole ground. Tonight it was largely how poor we used the ball which created those turnovers.
-The goals they got out the back, we have been working really hard to stop that. But it was off the back of some shallow entries. It is a work in progress. We need to do this better.
These two in particular sound like bad excuses. When you make shallow entries and let them over the back of you, you're not defending the whole ground.